Direct control in dogfights

[rami80]

Is anyone using direct control during dogfights? I've only used it usefully once in a dogfight at the top of a loop so I could point my nose downwards to fire an R-73.

[Stuge]

Is anyone using direct control during dogfights? I've only used it usefully once in a dogfight at the top of a loop so I could point my nose downwards to fire an R-73.

 

I do.

 

If it's missile combat, for pointing r73 yes, but with caution since the heavily loaded flanker may not like it :)

 

However, in guns duel, always. You can do wilder turns than with limiter on.

 

It goes past realism in say an initial turn at merge from 1100 km/h where you can use dynamic deceleration to pull a crazy quick high G turn that is just as tight as a regular turn from slower speed would be, but this leaves you with more speed for the next move :)

 

Most importantly limiter off gives you MUCH more control of your nose, and thus drastically increases the area where you can point your nose for a gun shot (or r73)

 

Keep in mind that after a certain AoA aileron control is both reversed and functions with significant delay :D

[amazingme]

I use it too in the same manner.. Seems like a cheat though.. very unrealistic. Probably they will change the pilot behaviour because if the plane can pull >20gs the pilot.. well.. can't :)

[amazingme]

Yeap.. they changed it..

[Ironhand]

Yeap.. they changed it..

Haven't had a chance to fly the new update yet. How has it changed?

[GGTharos]

It is a cheat; but no big deal, when the FM is updated with DM for over-g, as well as the effects caused by using direct control (ie NO DAMPING, AFAIK), you'll see why the switch isn't on the stick on the real plane (not to mention if weather could remain turned on by default for turbulence etc ... most people don't realize how easy they have it in the sim when it comes to keeping the aircraft stable) :D

 

All a big IF, though.

 

I use it too in the same manner.. Seems like a cheat though.. very unrealistic.

[Ironhand]

...if weather could remain turned on by default for turbulence etc ... most people don't realize how easy they have it in the sim when it comes to keeping the aircraft stable) :D

 

...

I was thinking the same thing the other day. How easy we have it because most of us (myself included) never put any weather (other than clouds) into a mission. It'd be fun to have "live" weather selectable based on up to date METARs for Anapa, Sochi, etc. Something along the lines of OPUS for FSX. Although I suppose there's always the dynamic weather option, too.

[GGTharos]

Whether taken from real sources or dynamic, as long as the representation is both correct and network-friendly, I think it would work great :)

[Esac_mirmidon]

The SK manual recommends very hard NOT disconnect the AoA + G limiter. This didn´t add any appreciable manuever capability and the risk of lossing control grows a lot.

 

A different thing is that the AoA+G limiter is one system and the Direct Control Mode is other. i believe you can disconnect the first while having all SDU functions working ( Two channel dampers, FBW, proportional control ) IMHO. It´s only a mechanical limiter security system applied to the stick. Also i think you can go to Direct Control Mode having the limiter ON.

 

The thing i don´t know is that for doing Cobra style maneuvers the pilot needs to disconnect both AoA and passing to Direct Control Mode or if is enough disconnecting the first limiter system.

[Ironhand]

...Also i think you can go to Direct Control Mode having the limiter ON...

In the DCS Su-27 manual, doesn't Figure 86 (pg 110) indicate that the direct control switch causes everything to be bypassed? Or am I misreading it?

[Esac_mirmidon]

Sorry.

 

I'm talking about the real Flanker.

[theropod]

Yeap.. they changed it..

 

but if you start to gain speed when asc deactive, there is still no affect on pilot and aircraft too.

pilot blackout only happens when you close the asc suddenly while you reach over 800-900kmh

friction is missing at high speeds.

Edited January 9, 2015 by theropod

[Ironhand]

Sorry.

 

I'm talking about the real Flanker.

Ahhh...I was under the impression that that schematic was from the real manual.

[GGTharos]

If any part of the FBW fails, the various limiters are usually turned off as well, since they're receiving faulty inputs.

 

Example: Lose YAW CAS channel in F-15, you'll likely lose the whole CAS.

 

If you deliberately turn it off, you'll lose the whole thing, too.

 

It makes no sense to keep the limiters on if you go direct control.

[Esac_mirmidon]

Yep this makes sense, but i can´t find any reliable font about real operation in the Flanker.

 

It´s very reasonable that the pilot can only go to Direct Control Mode when the SAU fails, so any other flight assistance should fail also. No reason for an AoA limiter when the whole SAU is not running.

 

But my question is. It´s possible to turn on Direct Control Mode manually with no fails in the SAU system? In other words, the pilot is able to turn off the SAU and go to Direct Control Mode without a SAU failure?

 

And. The pilot is able to do high AoA maneuvers only turning off the AoA limiter? Because if the SAU must be off also to make such maneuvers , and Direct Control Mode must be on, this lead to the conclusion that SAU can be turned off manually even without any failure.

[GGTharos]

I don't know what SAU does exactly, but is you go to DC, it should disable SAU automatically.

 

It is the equivalent of the pilot saying 'this system has failed', IMHO.

 

But, the person who could really answer these questions I believe is Yo-Yo.

 

Yo-Yo, where are you? :D

 

But my question is. It´s possible to turn on Direct Control Mode manually with no fails in the SAU system? In other words, the pilot is able to turn off the SAU and go to Direct Control Mode without a SAU failure?

 

And. The pilot is able to do high AoA maneuvers only turning off the AoA limiter? Because if the SAU must be off also to make such maneuvers , and Direct Control Mode must be on, this lead to the conclusion that SAU can be turned off manually even without any failure.