Datalink for F-15C Wish Item

[GGTharos]

Fair to realism, not game play - although I'm fairly certain that ED is giving a nod to game play also (... in the end, it is a game :P )

 

What game? I'm all for that, but that doesn't make anything fair.

I thought you understood that fairness is not what simulation is about or have you joined that camp now?

[TAW_Blaze]

Those 18 aircraft were also fitted with AESA radar, planned or not they don't fit into DCS. The cockpit in DCS is predating an APG-63(v)2.

 

As GG said these things were added long before any AESA came along. I'm just saying that if the MiG-29 can have a R-77 that still isn't operational in Russia, we can probably have a datalink feature that was actually operational, even if only in small numbers.

[Frostie]

As GG said these things were added long before any AESA came along. I'm just saying that if the MiG-29 can have a R-77 that still isn't operational in Russia' date=' we can probably have a datalink feature that was actually operational, even if only in small numbers.[/quote']

That's fair enough but on the other hand we have the OP stating that the F-15 in DCS should have datalink because he knows it does, I'm highlighting the fact that it is not that crystal.

[TAW_Blaze]

That's fair enough but on the other hand we have the OP stating that the F-15 in DCS should have datalink because he knows it does, I'm highlighting the fact that it is not that crystal.

 

My original reply to the OP was the popcorn gif. :D

[GGTharos]

And also that fans of each particular aircraft/side/whatever will ask for ... things. :D

 

That's fair enough but on the other hand we have the OP stating that the F-15 in DCS should have datalink because he knows it does, I'm highlighting the fact that it is not that crystal.

[104th_Cobra]

Datalink is only ONE feature. More important with the Russian fighters, developed around a GCI support and doctrine.

[Darkwolf]

AWACS is out of most MP servers anyway :D

[GGTharos]

I think this is a misconception. The US always used data-links. It's true that some fighters didn't have anything like JTIDS for a little while, but in particular the USAF with older fighters (think F-104), and especially the USN post F-4 liked implementing data-links.

 

JTIDS (TADIL-J?) is just one of the most advanced forms of data-link available to the west, but it is far from being the only one.

 

Datalink is only ONE feature. More important with the Russian fighters, developed around a GCI support and doctrine.

[104th_Cobra]

Understandable with the knowledge that only from the end of the seventies there were employed radars capable enough to give the SA and initiative for the pilots.

 

Those guys arguing for the F-15C datalink are asking for a God-eye radar view as substitute to a efficient flight team work :)

[GGTharos]

I agree on one hand, and disagree on the other.

 

Yes, usually virtual pilots are very lone-wolfy, however the very study that resulted in the initial order for JTIDS to be build into the F-15C indicates that data-link greatly enhances team-work :)

[block ii]

AWACS is out of most MP servers anyway :D

 

most MP servers have radar EWR 1L13 and EWR 55G6 but has no American AWACS, is unfair.

 

Sukhoi can use radar EWR 1L13 and EWR 55G6 , but the F-15 can't use radar EWR 1L13 and EWR 55G6 , in game has no functional American radar , is unfair.

 

Russian planes have information advantage on the battlefield , is unfair.

Edited January 26, 2015 by block ii

[Frostie]

They were fitted with JTIDS well before they were fitted with AESA.

 

But it's ok, really, the step to make this work better and be 'all fair' is to remove the R-77 capability from the MiG-29S, as well as TWS (it was only fitted to a few 9.13S's), and ensure that only one in every 4 flankers gets a jammer set.

 

Two can play this game ... get it?

 

I've got some dates for you.

1999 announced that 18 F-15 will be fitted with AESA (v)2

2000 July AIM-120C5 introduced

2000 December AESA F-15 x18 stationed at Elmendorf

 

DCS F-15 is armed with C5 it must be at earliest 2000 July with a time scale of 4 months to get upgraded to AESA, which is pretty tight to say the least.

 

Also considering the DCS F-15 cockpit is APG-63psp (related radar switch panel) it shouldn't even be one of the leading 18 F-15C aircraft lined up for the latest upgrades, which should have had latest build APG-63(v)1.

 

That being said though it would be great to see SADL in a hopefully fully clickable F-15C.

[GGTharos]

SADL would be for an F-15E if anything, and I'm not sure if that has it at all.

 

SADL is used for CAS, so it isn't appropriate for F-15C and AFAIK it was never implemented there. For F-15C it would be MIDS.

 

I know it had 'something' before MIDS, but people aren't willing to offer specifics, so I had to resort to a lot of guess work. I can't think of too many things, though I can imagine at minimum knowing where all your buddies are in your radar's FoV.

 

I wouldn't expect to see a 'DCS F-15C' with an AESA radar (not that it would be an unpleasant surprise), but I would expect nothing short of a V1. Also, upgrades are not necessarily done by/on the dates listed - some are pretty hard, others though ... you might sometimes find out these things have been in 'operational testing' for a while.

 

I'm not referring to any of the specific things discussed here, it's just a general comment.

 

PS: APG-63PSP really means just that it was upgraded with PSP, there's so many versions of APG-63PSP that it's really not funny :P

And AFAIK, I believe the cockpit hasn't changed significantly in Golden Eagles either, but pics are not forthcoming.

[Frostie]

most MP servers have radar EWR 1L13 and EWR 55G6 but has no American AWACS, is unfair.

 

Sukhoi can use EWR 1L13 and EWR 55G6 radar but the F-15 can't use radar EWR EWR 1L13 and 55G6 , is unfair.

 

Russian planes have information advantage on the battlefield , is unfair.

Then surely you find it unfair that the F-15 has active missiles which it can shoot and run while Su27 has to keep locking with its radar missiles, you must also find it unfair that the Mig has a weaker radar, much less fuel and even less chaff and flares than the F-15. The list goes on.

The developers you call biased even removed the active missle from the Su27 many years ago, hardly a biased move was it.

 

Every aircraft has pros and cons its up to you to use the strengths, if the enemy have datalink don't go where you won't be able to see them on radar. It's a matter of how you fly not how the game is laid out that is the issue.

[block ii]

Then surely you find it unfair that the F-15 has active missiles which it can shoot and run while Su27 has to keep locking with its radar missiles, you must also find it unfair that the Mig has a weaker radar, much less fuel and even less chaff and flares than the F-15. The list goes on.

The developers you call biased even removed the active missle from the Su27 many years ago, hardly a biased move was it.

 

Every aircraft has pros and cons its up to you to use the strengths, if the enemy have datalink don't go where you won't be able to see them on radar. It's a matter of how you fly not how the game is laid out that is the issue.

 

you are trying to disrupt the request , because on your own server has radar EWR 1L13 and EWR 55G6 but has no American AWACS, is unfair.

I do not flight on your server for this reason.

probably you fly just like sukhoi.

i think you like disadvantage...

Edited January 26, 2015 by block ii

[Frostie]

you are trying to disrupt the request , because on your own server has radar EWR 1L13 and EWR 55G6 but has no American AWACS, is unfair.

I do not flight on your server for this reason.

probably you fly just like sukhoi.

i think you like disadvantage...

 

I dislike datalink.

As for our server, EWR, AWACS etc. are earned as rewards by ground pounders accomplshing goals. They are not there at the start of the mission. Misplaced presumptions and strife seem to be your thing. ;)

[jcbak]

Then surely you find it unfair that the F-15 has active missiles which it can shoot and run while Su27 has to keep locking with its radar missiles, you must also find it unfair that the Mig has a weaker radar, much less fuel and even less chaff and flares than the F-15. The list goes on.

The developers you call biased even removed the active missle from the Su27 many years ago, hardly a biased move was it.

 

Every aircraft has pros and cons its up to you to use the strengths, if the enemy have datalink don't go where you won't be able to see them on radar. It's a matter of how you fly not how the game is laid out that is the issue.

 

AGREED! No doubt it comes down to the pilot in this sim. You can go to the 104th's server (as one example) and you'll find the better pilots get the majority of kills no matter what aircraft they fly or fly against. There are a number of pilots that fly the F15 only and they too are exceptional against a less skilled pilot. As it has been stated, you need to understand your own strengths/weaknesses as well as the aircraft's strengths/weaknesses. Additionally, and just as important, you need to understand the strengths/weaknesses of your opponent's aircraft. Air2Air is frustrating, as well as enormously satisfying to learn, but never master. I wouldn't blame the aircraft.

[block ii]

I dislike datalink.

As for our server, EWR, AWACS etc. are earned as rewards by ground pounders accomplshing goals. They are not there at the start of the mission. Misplaced presumptions and strife seem to be your thing. ;)

 

I'm just asking for improvements to the game becomes more fun and just .

you want to mess up the call for improvements. please stop hinder and help asking improvements. :(

[Frostie]

I'm just asking for improvements to the game becomes more fun and just .

you want to mess up the call for improvements. please stop hinder and help asking improvements. :(

 

The mod here has already stated there will be no add on toys for FC3 aircraft, what might seem an easy addition to you might be an absolute nightmare for the programmers.

[GGTharos]

You're very unlikely to see this in FC3.

 

I'm just asking for improvements to the game becomes more fun and just .

you want to mess up the call for improvements. please stop hinder and help asking improvements. :(

[GGTharos]

BTW, I quote Wags here:

 

"There will be no new functions added to the FC3 F-15C. Any new functions like a working SIT page would for a DCS: F-15C Eagle type project."

 

You can safely assume this is true of the rest of the FC3 stable, perhaps with the exception of adding a more modern FM.

[joey45]

The only next upgrqade to FC3 will be the Migs model and FM [i hope] which would leave the poor 33 with no love and all alone....

[vicx]

On my server y'all would get an F-15A from 1972 and an SU-27 as depicted in Hollywood movies and I would harvest your tears for an exclusive bottled water brand called "Simmers Tears".

[104th_Cobra]

... data-link greatly enhances team-work

 

I agree completely with that :) . And, of course, it will augment the number of employable tactics.

 

 

 

The only next upgrade to FC3 will be the Migs model and FM [i hope] which would leave the poor 33 with no love and all alone....

 

As much i prefer (read "love" :D ) the MiG, it will be a pity if there will be no upgrade to the Su-33 FM. Carrier operations are fun.

[SDsc0rch]

This game is unfair! totally Favorable to the Russians.

in this game F-15C do not have datalink. only the su-27 has datalink that of a great advantage to the su-27. advantage unfair..

in real life the f-15C has datalink, here in DCS F-15C has do not have datalink.

 

Please add the datalink in F-15C. fix it

 

 

 

whoaaaaaaa there - back up the truck jack

 

no "fair" allowed here ----- REALISM

 

 

i know i'm coming to this thread late, but i read that first post and i'm not just going to stand around and watch without stepping in

 

 

if you're gonna "nerf" one side - or artificially "enhance" features, that's not gonna go over well

 

the goal here should be REALISM and fidelity to real-world performance