FLUG REVUE August 2002: Saab JAS 39 Gripen versus MiG-29

[Kenan]

NATO TEST FOR GRIPEN

By Stefan Petersen

...

 

Flight Lieutenants Dan Eriksson and Adam Nelson manoeuvre their two ”Griffins” behind the MiG-29G piloted by US Major Doug ”Vinnie” Russell – the American exchange pilot from 1 Squadron of Fighter Group 73 ”Steinhoff” is leading this ”2 versus 2” mission. Stoini manoeuvres our MiG-29GT two-seater into position and we carry out the planned photo shoot before the four jets break off: Mindreader has issued fresh instructions relating to the real mission objective of providing neutral Sweden with the opportunity for air combat training to NATO standards.

 

The visit of six JAS 39's from F10 wing from the southern Swedish base of Ängelholm to Fighter Group 73 ”S” in Laage, North Germany, is a premier in two respects: not only is this the first time that the Gripens have trained with a NATO squadron, but it is also the first time they have flown operationally outside Sweden.

 

”Our security policy is in the process undergoing a change of orientation, away from pure defence of the homeland to operations in Europe,” explains Squadron Leader Per Alriksson, the Swedish project officer in charge of the transfer. ”From 1 January 2004 a squadron of Gripens is to be available as a Swedish Rapid Reaction Force for missions on behalf of the European Union or under the mandate of UNO, and as these missions often follow NATO standards, we need to familiarise ourselves with their procedures.”

 

Flight Lieutenants Eriksson and Nelson are doing precisely that: Mindreader has guided the two sides to within 60 km of each other in air combat zone ED-R 206/306 above Laage, and the fight can now begin. We are the bad guys: the two-seater is acting as a bomber and the single-seater MiG as its escort. The two Swedes, whose callsigns are ”Viking 1” and ”Viking 2”, are supposed to be intercepting us.

 

But we are a practice target with clipped wings: whereas the Gripens only have to observe the Mach 0.9 speed limit, the MiGs are not allowed to use afterburner or to pull more than 5g when turning either. Thus it is only a few minutes before Stoini and I fall victim to Viking 2, while Vinnie is ”taken out” by Viking 1.

 

These restrictions, which have been imposed at the request of the Swedes, are not without good reason. ”For us this is the first step in a new direction,” says Squadron Leader Alriksson. ”We want to concentrate on the standard procedures and radio messages and the basic geometry of NATO interception procedures, which have a number of differences compared with the ones we are used to in Sweden.” Before coming away to Germany, the Swedes had already run through the English-language radio calls.

 

Another major concern of Sweden's, Alriksson adds, is at this early phase of its realignment of security policy to get through the operation without any incidents. ”Simply avoid any risks.”

 

To accustom the twelve pilots from Ängelholm to flying in NATO airspace, each of them has completed a ”1 versus 1” mission – one Gripen versus one MiG – at the start of the five-day visit to Laage before trying their hand at the more demanding ”2 versus 2” missions. ”That is the main focus of the training,” says Squadron Leader Markus Treinies, project officer on the German side. Altogether, eight missions like this are to be flown during the week, one of them at night. ”The climax is then the ”3 versus 2 plus 2” scenarios – four flights of three Gripens versus four MiGs, with two of the MiGs acting as bombers and two as escorts. Here the Gripens can use quite different tactics from us, thanks to their highly developed datalink system.”

 

This technology permits up to four JAS 39's to exchange all the important information from radar and other sensors in real-time during a mission, so that every pilot has a complete picture of the air situation of the entire formation, even if individual aircraft are some distance apart.

 

In the extreme case, one Gripen can lead three others whose radars are switched off into battle and function as their eyes. The opponent receives only a single radar warning and may not realise that the threat is actually four times as great as he thinks until he has been shot down by one of the three ”silent” jets. ”Information superiority” is the term used by the Swedes to describe their concept of waging air warfare.

 

But in practice Viking 1 and 2 hardly need to deploy such technical tricks to emerge victorious in an exercise scenario in which the MiGs are at such a disadvantage. The two-seater does not have any radar, and the best indicator that the ”Griffins” will shortly be with us again is the frantically flashing radar warning receiver in the cockpit, which indicates that the Swedish Ericsson-PS-05/A pulse Doppler radar has already passed our plane's details to the on-board computer of a Gripen as a target. This time we are ”killed” even more quickly than on the first engagement, and even Vinnie in his radar-equipped fighter aircraft cannot remain in the fray for much longer.

 

It is largely thanks to the American major that Fighter Group 73 was the partner for this first training week. He had met Wing Commander Per Nilsson, captain of 2 Squadron of Wing F10 three years earlier in the USA, where Nilsson was attending a staff training course in Maxwell as a non-NATO exchange officer. ”I already knew at the time that I would be going to Laage as an exchange pilot,” explains Major Russell, ”and we decided to stay in contact. Perhaps there would be an opportunity to fly together.”

 

Ängelholm is actually very close to the German base: the two airfields are separated by only 250 km as the crow flies, 27 minutes from take-off to landing. The visit was originally planned for September 2001. It had to be postponed once, but now Nilsson is there with his squadron.

 

The Swedes travelled by a combination of land, sea and air. As well as the six jets which flew in, a C-130 Hercules took care of the transportation of materiel, while most of the approximately 50 men and one woman in the detachment plus the necessary vehicles came by ferry across the Baltic Sea.

 

In Laage the Swedes were assigned a separate area, from where they were able to operate their technology completely independently. Only the aircrew are staying most of the time with the host MiG squadron, where all the missions are planned and debriefs are held following the completion, for the sake of simplicity.

 

This debrief turns out to be quite one-sided on our flight, although the MiGs have done their best to avoid making things too easy for the Vikings. On the third and last ”set-up”, Stoini and I are soon out of the picture, as before, but Vinnie sticks around bravely and tries to get in a position to fire himself. Then at an altitude of 9,000ft (2,750m), a dogfight even starts up, but Viking 1 gains the upper hand, as planned. ”OK, terminate,” we finally hear our American formation leader say over the radio.

 

One of the most serious differences between the Swedish and NATO ways of flying is the units used to denote critical parameters: whereas the Alliance count in knots, feet and nautical miles, the instruments in the Gripen show metres and kilometres. ”It is quite new to us to fly with this data,” says Alriksson. ”If we are to improve interoperability, we will have to change our standards in Sweden.”

 

The major has also discovered some tactical differences. However, the reasons for these lie more in the Gripen's ”swing role” capability, i.e. the ability to change missions in flight. ”We work out several plans before taking off so as to be able to respond to quite different situations.” This, Alriksson admits, of course only works because of the datalink facilities in the jets.

 

The Swedes, accustomed as they are to high technology, are astonished by the performance that is possible on the MiG-29. That the Fulcrum, with its two RD-33 engines each producing 81.3kN of thrust with afterburning, should have considerably more power available than the Gripen is no surprise. The JAS 39 is after all powered by a single RM12 turbofan developed by Volvo from the General Electric F404 turbine and delivering 80.5kN of thrust with afterburning. ”But they have been really surprised by what we can achieve despite the MiG's outdated avionics”, says Squadron Leader Treinies.

 

”Our radar does not produce a situation display, but despite that we still have a good view of the air combat situation. When you are using relatively unsatisfactory technology against fourth generation fighter aircraft , you develop the necessary instincts.”

 

Five pilots from Ängelholm have the opportunity to enjoy flying in the second seat of the MiG-29GT, and Squadron Leader Alriksson is one of them. The Swedes would have liked to reciprocate, but ”So far only one Gripen trainer has been officially delivered to the Swedish Air Force,” says Alriksson. Of course there are more trainers in operation, but they are still being flown under the flag of the manufacturer Saab.

 

The Swedish Air Force has ordered a total of 204 Gripens, 28 of them two-seaters, and a little over one-half of the aircraft have so far been delivered. The first 140 consist of 126 JAS-39A single-seaters and 14 JAS-39B trainers. These are to be followed by another 50 more advanced JAS 39C's plus 14 JAS 39D's, to be built in the Linköping production facility. The C/D versions have different air refuelling equipment, a cockpit with colour displays, a new on-board computer system, an on-board oxygen supply system and other enhancements compared with the A/B models. The C variant is to be equipped with a reconnaissance pod as well. ”From 2006 the Rapid Reaction Forces will also be equipped with the JAS 39C,” says Alriksson.

 

 

...

 

Source:

http://www.flug-revue.rotor.com/FRheft/FRH0208/FR0208d.htm

[Pilotasso]

A few notes here before jumping into comclusions:

 

1) The gripen version in use is a very basic aircraft of much lighter weight then the Mig-29G, both aircraft have underrated engines. In the gripens case it is to be corrected on the C version.

 

2) The "surprising perfomance of the primitive driven Mig" was the result of a scripted limited exercise, even then it was shown that the gripen has vicious AA tactics thanks to its clever avionics.

 

3) The MIG has very limited radar perfomance no matter what has been said by the pilots wich is rather vague and not exactly something to write home about.

 

All in all this IMHO doesnt bring me anything that I already dint know nor am I surprised. It also doesnt support the idea that the mig can rely on improvisation as a doctrine to beat more modern aircraft with such old avionics.

 

The mig should be taken in consideration in combat, underestimating it is a death sentence sure, but its not much different than doing the same for other aircraft of the same class such as F-16A block 5 (wich no longer exists so the block 15 is the oldest operating standard).

[Kenan]

Well, vanilla Mig29 has about 40km radar range and this topic isn't about trying to prove Mig is better then Grippen. In fact, the only thing that gives 29S good fighting chance in Lockon, is it's jammer. Without it, it would hardly win the first shot BVR engagements, like it's the case IRL.

[Kenan]

Maj. Doug Russell’s daily life begins much like any other American pilot’s, at least right up to the point where he climbs the ladder into his jet — a Soviet-built MiG-29 Fulcrum.

 

Russell, known as “Vinnie” by fellow pilots, is part of the Air Force’s personnel exchange program. While getting a shot as an exchange officer is a rare opportunity in itself, throwing MiG driving into the equation puts the former

F-15 instructor into a class of his own.

 

Russell shrugs off any suggestion that he’s a man of rare abilities or innate qualifications for this one-of-a-kind job. Still, he knows the assignment is special.

 

“There’s not a day I don’t look out the window and say to myself, ‘I must have the coolest job in the Air Force.’ It’s pretty great to be flying the MiG,” he said.

 

 

 

 

 

The patches on the gray German flight suit Russell sports are those of the Luftwaffe’s 731st Fighter Squadron. His unit, based at Laage Air Base, Germany, about two hours north of Berlin, is the only MiG squadron in the German air force.

 

And what’s even more unique about his assignment is that Laage was home to the former East German air force a bit more than 10 years ago. The base teamed with Su-22 Fitters and other Russian-built fighters and military hardware. Laage’s well-concealed and scattered hardened aircraft shelters and flight line alert facilities still bear witness to the Cold War struggle between the East and West.

 

Although the buildings and warplanes tell tales of a former era, the addition of Russell, his wife, Kelly, and 4-year-old son, Benjamin, in the Laage community sends a strong message about the Germany of today. Many say their presence as Americans couldn’t be a better testament to the stark changes that have taken place since German re-unification.

 

Russell got his first taste of flying with German pilots while earning his wings and then later instructing at European joint jet pilot training at Sheppard Air Force Base, Texas.

 

“I thought back then it would be a great opportunity to fly with the Luftwaffe,” Russell said. “I knew these guys and had a lot of respect for their abilities.”

 

But he said his selection into the two-year program simply amounted to being in the right place at the right time.

 

“Timing is everything,” he said “Any fighter pilot could do this job.”

 

After checking out of his assignment with the 2nd Fighter Squadron at Tyndall Air Force Base, Fla., Russell underwent 34 weeks of German language classes at the State Depart-ment’s national foreign affairs training center near Washington, D.C., before heading to Laage.

 

“I started off here with two weeks, seven hours a day of MiG-29 academics, all in German. And most of the components in the aircraft are in Russian,” Russell said. “It’s one thing to take a language course, but it’s another thing to show up and take a technical course in German. It was a little eye-opening.”

 

He said the experience forced him to be immersed in the language, and that’s been a key to his success ever since.

 

After learning about the MiG-29 aircraft systems, it was time to take to the skies. He flew seven flights with an instructor, each about 45 minutes. After that, he was cleared to take up the MiG on his own. After another seven missions, he was a “mission-ready” Luftwaffe MiG pilot.

 

“I think all pilots like to learn flying a new airplane. This was taking that to an extreme,” he said.

 

At first Russell thought he could climb into the cockpit and fly it much like his F-15C Eagle, but he found the philosophy behind the design of the durable Russian warplane was different. The only thing the MiG had in common with the F-15 was the relative ease in handling, he said.

 

“The F-15 is more of a Cadillac. The MiG is more like a tractor. It’s heavy, strong and less technically oriented. It’s a more simple aircraft, but it’s still effective,” he said.

 

Russell explained that the real advantages of the MiG, other than simplicity and durability, come into play at close range with enemy aircraft.

 

“If the MiG driver survives to the merge [within visual range], he has the advantage because of the off-bore site weapons capability,” he said, referring to the helmet-mounted site that guides missiles in the direction in which the pilot is looking. He also said the sheer power and flight characteristics of the MiG make it a formidable sparring partner up close.

 

But, as he pointed out, the MiG may never make it to the “merge” because U.S. and western pilots are likely to identify the aircraft miles out and shoot it down before the Fulcrum pilot has a fighting chance. That weakness comes largely from Soviet doctrine that takes much of the critical information out of the hands of the pilot, and puts it into the hands of ground controllers.

 

“The jet doesn’t provide the same decision-making data to the pilot. The information is in the machine, but the pilot can’t see it. That can be frustrating,” he said, citing lack of target altitude, closure velocities of enemy aircraft and visual target designation systems in the heads-up display as examples.

 

But when the MiG-29 goes head-to-head with our best fighters in the visual arena, “It will come down to who flies the better airplane,” he said.

 

Despite some of the aircraft’s weaknesses, Russell said the bottom line is that they are the real thing and provide invaluable training opportunities as adversary aircraft to other NATO pilots.

 

“These guys are rock stars. Everybody wants to fly with them,” he said of the German MiG pilots. The squadron walls bear testament to that fame. They are replete with the squadron posters and plaques of all the NATO fighter squadrons that have engaged the MiGs in air combat training since 1994.

 

“I’d rather have my adrenaline spiked for the first time when I meet a MiG in training, before meeting one in combat,” Russell said. “That’s what we provide NATO forces — the ability to train against an aircraft that many of their would-be adversaries are flying.”

 

“We can learn a lot from him,” said German Lt. Col. Peter Hauser, 73rd Fighter Wing vice commander. “It helps having an American point of view. I always like having an exchange pilot in the squadron so I can ask ‘What would an American think about it,’ when tough issues come up and we need another perspective,” he said.

 

But fellow pilot and German officer Capt. Frank Simon said that for the most part Russell is just one of the guys.

 

“He’s one of us,” Simon said, explaining that while he may be an American, he blends right in with the rest of the squadron. “I can imagine what it must feel like for him to fly the MiG-29 though,” he said.

 

When Simon was in the West German army more than 10 years ago, he had to scout positions where they expected East German and Russian tanks to come rolling across the border.

 

“Now I am flying a Russian-built MiG over the same territory,” Simon said. “It’s very hard to imagine that we were supposed to fight each other.” That “Twilight Zone” feeling must be similar to what Russell, an American pilot, experiences flying the MiG, he added.

 

While the Luftwaffe and the squadron are glad to have Russell on their team, Russell says the benefit of the exchange program is clearly mutual.

 

“It’s not like I’m here to exploit the aircraft. We’ve known about it and its capabilities for a long time. But I think having a guy with hands-on experience in an adversary aircraft can be valuable,” he said. “And the exchange of ideas — not only to learn how these guys do business, but to bring a part of our Air Force to them as well — is important.”

 

He said the cultural contact and relationship building is equally, if not more, important.

 

“The exchange between our cultures is good because I’ll make friendships that will last forever, and hopefully leave a positive impression of Americans and our Air Force.”

 

The future of American MiG pilots in Germany is uncertain. The Luftwaffe is scheduled to start flying the Eurofighter in about two years. While the MiG-29 provides a great opponent for air combat training, say German air force officials, the Soviet theory behind its design may make the great Russian warbird a significant, but obsolete, part of German air force history.

 

http://www.af.mil/news/airman/0801/mig.html

[ViperVJG73]

18-22-March 2002 Swedish GRIPEN in Laage!

 

Swedish GRIPEN in Laage!

 

http://www.fabulousfulcrums.de/NEWS/Gripen_e.htm

 

Source: http://www.fabulousfulcrums.de

[59th_Reaper]

Hi!

 

Our 1st five (of 14) Gripens arrived to Kecskemét AFB.

 

http://www.jetfly.hu/rovatok/tipusok/jas39/gripen_060321/

 

Type: JAS-39C/D EBS HU

[peterj]

Some footage of the delivery,

http://info.teamm.se/Gripen_in_Hungary.wmv

 

The Hungarian MiGs looks nice in the same air superiority theme.

[Peyoteros]

Nice footage ! Lucky HAF! :D

[Esac_mirmidon]

Mig- No radar ( GT version ), no afterburner, no more than 5 G´s, only one escort, and one bomber. Detunned engines on both.

 

Well, this is what i call a "dissimilar" air combat. NO surprises in the final result at all.

[Vekkinho]

Mig- No radar ( GT version ), no afterburner, no more than 5 G´s, only one escort, and one bomber. Detunned engines on both.

 

Well, this is what i call a "dissimilar" air combat. NO surprises in the final result at all.

 

It like swimming with sharks. Handcuffed!

 

Well at least MiG pilots were allowed to use both engines!

Edited October 6, 2008 by Vekkinho

[nscode]

3) The MIG has very limited radar perfomance no matter what has been said by the pilots wich is rather vague and not exactly something to write home about.

 

No, it does not, no matter what some defecting pilots say, or tests of half-failed peaces show.

[Teknetinium]

there's Nothing new in the article, I would not think Mig-29A would come out alive vs JAS-39 in any BVR scenarios, even whit ground control/AWACS as help, because of JAS-39 datalink ability. As mentioned the MIG-29 air dynamics is still hard to tackle, for any new airframe whit out thrust-vectoring.

That would be grate for EF-2000/JAS-39/Rafale to end dogfight worries. :)

 

Good reading, its from this kind of articles there is to find some goodis and questions. goodies ....

Edited October 6, 2008 by Teknetinium

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

It like swimming with sharks. Handcuffed!

 

Well at least MiG pilots were allowed to use both engines!

:thumbup: :megalol:

[Weta43]

A few notes here before jumping into comclusions:

1) The gripen version in use is a very basic aircraft of much lighter weight then the Mig-29G, both aircraft have underrated engines. In the gripens case it is to be corrected on the C version...

You mean more basic than an old Luftwaffe MiG 29A or more basic than a 2 seater trainer with no radar fitted ?

The "surprising perfomance of the primitive driven Mig" was the result of a scripted limited exercise, even then it was shown that the gripen has vicious AA tactics thanks to its clever avionics.

???

But we are a practice target with clipped wings: whereas the Gripens only have to observe the Mach 0.9 speed limit, the MiGs are not allowed to use afterburner or to pull more than 5g when turning either.