I'm still confused about K4 control force FFB

[Dirty Rotten Flieger]

I just read the thread about the Bf109 K4 control forces vs speed, and I'm terribly sorry but I still am not quite sure I understand... It's on sale right now and I would like to buy it but I need to understand this as it is important.

 

It seemed to me that YoYo stated quite clearly that stick position matches control surface position. Period. So one can fly DCS and then fly the real thing with the same feel for stick position vs control surface position. Fair enough.

 

So for a FFb stick, force may still go up as speed increases but for a non FFB stick there will be no effect from air speed on stick position.

 

I have no FFB stick so unfortunately this would effectively mean no sensation of dynamic stick force as speed increases.

 

I suspect that trying to fly the DCS K4 modeled with correct elevator position / stick deflection , with a cheap non FFB stick would just be a waste.

 

It seemed to me there was some misunderstanding that stick forces for non FFB will be added in the form of "cutting" . But as I read it Yoyo's posts stated no cutting or anything else will be added as that would degrade the accuracy of the stick deflection / elevator deflection.

 

I hope that is clear and to the point. I won't buy it right now without a FFB stick because I cannot feel any effect from high speed on my stick.

 

So do I understand correctly?

 

I did order a MSFFB2 off ebay a couple of years ago but it never turned up and I lost my 180 bucks.. Maybe I should try to get another one. I love the messer and I can see that non FFB is not gonna cut it with this level of simulation.

[Roadrunner]

not sure what you want *confused*

 

are you saying you wont fly the 109 without FFB-Stick, or are you asking if it is possible to fly it without FFB?

[Anatoli-Kagari9]

It's possible, and with time you will actually mentally impose the "forces" you do not feel.

 

Using a very strong spring or the original Thrustmaster Cougar Hotas can help, as a stiff joystick will, even if unrealistically, ask for additional effort to move it around...

 

But... at the end of the day, the outcome, IMHO, is that it feels... plastic.

 

The same applies to rudder. The real Bf109s were well known for getting their pilots legs "tired" of the continuous effort to make the airplane fly coordinated, out of the ideal cruise regime to which it's ground adjustable trim tabs were optimized. In DCS's K4 you have to kick the left rudder pedal at high power / slow speed / climb regimes, and the right one during highspeed or low power flight and descents, but the moment you kick in the rudder you do not feel any hint of stiffness and the ball starts dancing, and the nose of the aircraft too....

Edited February 14, 2015 by jcomm

[Art-J]

Well, the "cutting" is already there in Dora and Mustang, so I cannot imagine similar thing not appearing in 109 sooner or later, making the whole DRFlieger's problem a bit irrelevant. Maybe it's already there to some point (bought the 109 yesterday and haven't completed full test flight program yet :D).

[Dirty Rotten Flieger]

Will Bf109k4 receive "cutting" so non FFB stick will need greater stick deflection at higher speeds to simulate the higher stick force required to hold elevator position stationary?

 

Thats as simple as I can put it. I won't buy it if I can't fly it with feeling of speed.

 

Some say the other WW2 birds have cutting and so K4 will get it but I put more weight in Yoyo statements that they don't.

 

This whole issue is very confusing and I suspect there are two conversations here. One for FFB owners and one for non FFB owners. It sounds like FFB sticks will give feeling of increased stick force at high speed and non FFB sticks would need to have cutting added to give sense of dynamic stick forces.

 

If they add cutting it would mess up the FFB stick accuracy. If they leave it out it will mean no feeling for non FFB.

[IvanK]

"If they add cutting it would mess up the FFB stick accuracy. If they leave it out it will mean no feeling for non FFB."

 

If this exists and can be implimented it could controled by the Enabled FFB option. If FFB enabled "cutting" disabled, if FFB not engaged "cutting" enabled ???