Valve/HTC Vive Discussion

[npole]

One thing.. the screen resolution is ignored when running in VR mode right? Because i normally run in 1600p with the monitor...

[Milopapa]

In Nvidia control panel-these setting

 

AFAIK, control panel settings are pretty much ignored by SteamVR.

I might be wrong.

[Nascar]

Isn't "visibility range = high" killing you - especially near big(ger) cities?

Not really, I only back it down if it's unplayable.

 

AFAIK, control panel settings are pretty much ignored by SteamVR.

I might be wrong.

I don't know if it matters but I don't have SteamVr on. Just Auto detect enabled in game.

 

And shouldn't Flat Terrain shadows be set to ON?

Idk, I thought that caused a lot of fps loss. I have Shadows Flat only.

 

I have noticed that the control panel settings make the fences and power lines better. Not great but a big step up from my previous.

[Nascar]

So after fiddling around for some time here are my "optimal" settings (i.e. going as high as possible and getting (nearly) no stutters). Any suggestions for improvement more than welcome!

Did you try to up the resolution of cockpit displays? I think it helps a lot.

[npole]

I'm having so many stutters in multiplayer.. and I now lowered everything i can set to low/off.

When moving my head in the cockpit, it's like having duplicate frames, making it a pain to fly.

I tried with both VSYNCH OFF and ON (now it's OFF), by disabling SteamVR, reprojection is ON... does anyone has anything else to suggest?

Again, i'm on a 980Ti and 4.3ghz 6cores. Does anyone here are experiencing similar issues with multiplayer?

[funkyfranky]

Did you try to up the resolution of cockpit displays? I think it helps a lot.

You mean in terms of performance or readability? It only affects planes with an MFD (like the A-10) right?

But I'll give it a try. Thanks!

[npole]

So the issue looks to be about the objects in view.. I enabled the detailed FPS screen and I have noticed that in a random situation (while sitting in hangar), while looking at right, the screen reported 1900 objects loaded and I were doing 18-20 fps, and when looking at my left the objects were 900 and I was doing 52 fps.

 

There must be something really wrong with the ambient occlusion because both the views were similar (no visible objects...).

 

My sets are also all to low (including the view distance)... and again I own a 980Ti .. i don't believe that I would do 18 fps in DCS with all the sets to LOW, while in every other games I do four times that FPS with mid-high settings in VR (in example in Project CARS).

[Shabi]

Yes, that's the main driver of a fall in FPS, along with shadows (which follows, as a lot of objects casting shadows is doubly bad. To make it even worse turn on the cockpit mirrors for extra pain!).

 

This is particularly evident in MP as mission designers often scatter all kinds of extra bits and pieces around the spawn area. Once you take off it abates a lot, but if you fly near a town or a lot of trees you will probably get it again. Seems that asynchronous time warp allows you to fake your way out of a bad FPS, but this only works well on the Rift. Reprojection on the Vive still needs a minimum of 45fps to work well, or you get the stutters.

[DracoLlasa]

im getting my Vive tomorrow and DCS is one of the first sims i want to test out.

I know there is an option in the DCS World settings to detect the Occulus Rift, but for the Vive how to i set it to use the Vive (not using the Steam version of DCS World).

is it something i do in the Steam VR software or does it show up as a different display int he DCS:W settings

[spiddx]

Just check the Oculus Rift option, it works with the Vive as well. I guess they'll have to rename that option in the future. :)

[DracoLlasa]

great, so its really a "detect VR device" options.

well hopefully by this time tomorrow i will know for sure :-)

cant wait!

[npole]

Be aware that the game won't turn ON your device if it's OFF (set to turn OFF from the SteamVR options: turn off when quit...).

So you have to have SteamVR running, or disable the option to turn it off when exiting SteamVR.

[npole]

I really advise you to try this:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?...7&postcount=36

These are the 1.5.2 old visibility values posted by Mustang. (third time I'm suggesting this... :noexpression:)

 

Another option is trying the 1.5.2 directly. You can downgrade using this command:

dcs_updater update 1.5.2

(Optionally copy your whole current DCS folder to avoid having to upgrade later via network)

And yes, that version already supported the Vive.

 

What I don't understand is why with 5 visibility levels to choose from on the options none, even the lowest, gives any substantial performance gain.

 

I already tried it.. I also lowered the numbers of the LOW option.. it didn't made any difference (or anything noticeable).

The fact is that if i run the game without the VIVE, it does something like 130fps ..I know the resolution is different and it has to double render.. but from 130 to a low of 18fps seems a way too much. I can't downgrade (I play online).

I think the stereoscopic rendering in DCS is heavily bugged...

[funkyfranky]

npole, you get this performance loss also in single player mode or is it a multiplayer issue?

Maybe you can record a track in single player and we compare our frame rates. I have the same graphics card.

[npole]

npole, you get this performance loss also in single player mode or is it a multiplayer issue?

Maybe you can record a track in single player and we compare our frame rates. I have the same graphics card.

 

Multiplayer (as I specified in the other post) ...SP performance is much better, but SP for me has no value, since I only play online.

Btw I'm surprised that I'm the only one who have noticed it? Everyone who own a HMD is playing SP.... or what?

[jared9191]

Multiplayer (as I specified in the other post) ...SP performance is much better, but SP for me has no value, since I only play online.

Btw I'm surprised that I'm the only one who have noticed it? Everyone who own a HMD is playing SP.... or what?

 

I play the majoirty of my time online, and usually have no issues.

 

If the weather is bad, rain etc my frames will drop. The other issue are cities, i try to avoid them.

 

But usually these issues aside, it works great online.

[tkairshows]

Is there a way to turn off the mirror on the monitor so the card is not rendering 3 images?

[Hollywood_315]

@DigitalEngine nice!

 

@tkairshows

Is there a way to turn off the mirror on the monitor so the card is not rendering 3 images?

From what I've read elsewehere I understood that the desktop view is just a replica of the Left (or Right) eye render, i.e. not a separate render.

I could be wrong though. If it helps to increase fps I'd be happy to get rid of it.

[npole]

Tbilisi River Run in DCS World with the HTC Vive, at mostly 90fps.

Reprojection (equivalent to O/R ATW) kicks in at 45fps drops.

Two passes down the Tbilisi river walk and a pass down the central rail line with a landing and shut down. Showcasing the smoothness of gameplay. Emersion is incredible, resolution, well.., petition HTC and Valve to sell us 4K HMD's is all I can say :)

 

Now try to do the same in multiplayer ... and lemme know. :)

 

Ah.. what you see you on the screen (the one you recorded) is different from the experience you have in the HMD, because of synched frames: at low fps when the synchronization is lost you will see major stutters, while the mirror on the screen remains fluid because it's a single view port.

[Milopapa]

Tbilisi River Run in DCS World with the HTC Vive, at mostly 90fps.

 

Not that I don't believe you but it'd be nice to see where it drops to 45fps. The numbers are too small to see even in 1080p.

[DigitalEngine]

Performance Issues...

 

Here is a repost plus addition info which may help others.

 

If your Using the HTC Vive read this page,

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=139912&page=107

 

Basically it seems the Steam app, and also a background services presumably having to do with HTC's e-shop, and/or Steam VR do not seem play well with DCS World (go figure, as DCS is available on Steam...)

I just turn them all off when activating DCS World. Also I basically disable every unnecessary app running in the task bar.

 

Until I (and Holleywood_315 about the same time) figured this out. The stuttering was not sever, but noticeably annoying. Reading the below quote, this stutter was in the 2D monitor version also, it just was not as noticeable as it is in VR, in other words the stutter issue I was having did not have anything to do with fps (running at 180fps!!).

 

Yes, there is a very slight stutter I'm experiencing also, approximately every 1.0 to 1.5 seconds that is sometimes especially noticeable in Virtual Reality. Even when getting 90fps I can see this slight stutter. After trying differing graphical settings (low to medium), I went to 2D mode, and yes, it's there, but in 2D you really have to look for it. In Virtual Reality it's much more noticeable because everything is full and life size.

 

The HTC Vive's equivalent to OR's ATW is "Allow Reprojection", and it works very well. It basically kick's in when the fps drops to 45fps.

 

Another thing I've noticed, is cockpit shadows have a very hard hit on fps, as it keeps the fps in the Reprojection (or ATW) range most of the time, which is a shame as I really love the cockpit shadows. If you'd like a to see a good example of how the "Allow Reprojection" works, fly the "Flight Over Tbilisi" mission with the cockpit shadows on.

 

These are my DCS option setting, and below that is my system hardware description, which I've got overclocked, both the CPU and GPU.

 

Textures = Medium

Terrain Textures = Low

Civ. Traffic = Low (although I haven't seen any yet)

Water = Low

Heat Blur = OFF

Shadows = OFF

*N/A

*N/A

*N/A

Res. of Cockpit Displays = 256

MSAA = 8x

HDR = ON (don't know is it really does anything in VR)

Depth of Field = OFF

Lens Effects = NONE

 

Clutter/Grass = 0 (haven't really played with it yet)

Tress Visibility = 1500 (haven't really played with it yet)

Preload Radius = 150 (played with it, but not quite understanding how it really works and effects DCS World in VR yet)

 

Anisotropic Filtering = 4x

Flat Terrain Shadows = OFF

Disable Aero Interface = Checked

 

My system is fairly up to date, and I personally consider it really the minimal for a good DCS World / HTC Vive experience. It just takes some beefy hardware for this VR thing.

My system basics are,

i7-6700 CPU,

ASUS ROG MAXIMUS VIII HERO ALPHA motherboard,

G.SKILL F4-3400C16Q-64GVK 64GB memory (maybe this is what's forcing me through issues others are having?)

Zotac GeForce® GTX 980 Ti AMP! Extreme GPU

Windows10

SSD Harddrive

 

Ah.. what you see you on the screen (the one you recorded) is different from the experience you have in the HMD, because of synched frames: at low fps when the synchronization is lost you will see major stutters, while the mirror on the screen remains fluid because it's a single view port.

What I'm seeing in the HMD is mostly 90fps (about 92%-98% guess). While it's not possible for me to monitor the monitor while wearing the HMD to compare both, I do see and I am able to read the fps indication in the HMD very well as it's displayed a little lower in the HMD, closer the Vives sweet spot than the comms messages.

 

I do get the occasional drop down to 45fps, but (and this is only just an observed subjective speculation) it seems to be certain object textures and at only certain altitudes or distances from the offending object, whatever it might be, I don't know.

But I have the suspicion the ED team is already aware of the culprit(s) and it(they) are on a to do list for termination.

And I haven't got to doing multiplayer yet, just not enough time :noexpression:.

 

This is the best help I can give for those using the Vive, hope it helps some of those struggling with the stutter issues.

 

Again, keep in mind all this is new, DCS World wasn't built from the keyboard up for VR, so it's gonna take some time and a lot of work by the Eagle Dynamics Team and the dedicated DCS World fans to get to where we'd all like DCS + VR to be.

Edited June 2, 2016 by DigitalEngine

[Hollywood_315]

When watching the extended fps counter in-game during VR testing with the Vive I have the following observations, appreciate if you can confirm and share your thoughts

 

1) 'Surf' (presumably water) eats quite a lot of render time (1.5+) even though my Water setting is LOW and there is hardly any water surface in sight when looking around.

 

2) The 'Camera Angles' counter spontaneously resets to 90.00000 0.000000 every two seconds. This is regardless of whether Allow Reprojection has been set to ON or OFF.

This could be innocent but I do find it suspicious i.e. could point to erroneous addressing of the VR driver. I have not seen this behaviour before with TrackIR in 2D but perhaps others have?

Would be nice to hear if others can replicate and if this counter resetting is the same with the OR.

[funkyfranky]

Thanks for your settings, DigitalEngine!

One question: Does "Flat Terrain Shadows = OFF" have a positive or negative impact on the frame rate?

[Hollywood_315]

Simple tip @all: If like me you have no particular need for rendered tree objects in VR you can set the Trees slider below 1500 by editing the options.lua file. I set it to zero myself.

 

["treesVisibility"] = 0

 

@averagepilot

 

I really advise you to try this:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?...7&postcount=36

These are the 1.5.2 old visibility values posted by Mustang.

 

Thanks for this. I'm using Mustangs High settings now and these seem to give me better overall results than the regular Low visibility range.

[Shabi]

OK, did some tweaking and got DCS Vive back to a playable state, im using a gtx980. Firstly, I disabled the background services as per Hollywood's post on this page:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=139912&page=107

 

 

*) service ViveFSM Service: change startup mode from Automatic to Manual

*) service Viveport Services: change startup mode from Automatic to Manual

*) service HTC Account Service: change startup mode from Automatic to Manual

*) using msconfig (look this up on internet if you're not familiar with it) I disabled startup for HTCVRMarketplaceUserContextHelper

 

(I'm on win10 so used the Services thing in the start menu/computer management. MSconfig startup doesn't seem to be in win8, you can at least kill the processes in task manager).

 

Next up I tweaked the graphics settings using the F15-C instant action mission (intercept), diving down to the urban area to check how it went. I can mostly sit with the FPS clamped at 45, so reprojection is doing it's thing. Stuttering is noticeable when it drops below that. When the bombers drop their loads it goes to hell, especially with explosion effects, but this is fine unless you are playing bombing missions I suppose.

 

At any rate, I like trees, and I like shadows. But shadows and trees are a recipe for disaster. Indeed shadows with any urban environment kills it pretty quick. Below are the settings I chose to achieve a 90% hit rate on 45fps, after disabling those services:

 

 

(Antialiasing is jacked up as I'm trying to make the cockpit gauges clearer). I then tested this in the Phoenix server and it is indeed playable, ROCK ON :joystick:

(we need a VR emoji)

Edited June 4, 2016 by Shabi
accuracy