Will one of the two variants be AG ?

[SkateZilla]

They all had the ability to carry gravity bombs and LG bombs,

the issue was laser designating for the LGBs for the early Cats.

 

So we should be able to carry Mk82s and stuff no problem.

 

Grumman even had a flight test with like 12 MK82s on the Cat to demonstrate.

 

Anyway as much fun as it is to discuss this with ya guys today,

Im at work now and working extended hours the next 3 days,

so I wont be participating in the discussion as much going forward until the weekend.

 

So keep it civil. keep it fun.

Edited March 4, 2015 by SkateZilla

[Alicatt]

From 1977:

[Dudikoff]

It may be splitting hairs - it just seems there were indeed A, B, and D bombcats and A, B, and D non-bombcats. I have no clear picture. Better today than yesterday though.

 

I don't see what's confusing you. As said before, Bombcat was a general non-official term for those A's and B's modified for A2G role (not all of them were upgraded) starting with the initial A/B Upgrade program. And then later some of them want through more and more upgrades. So, the actual meaning behind it depends on a particular airframe in a particular point in time.

 

And since the F-14D had these things from the start, the term was never used for them AFAIK.

Edited March 4, 2015 by Dudikoff

[westr]

"The pod also featured an internal computer with ballistics data for the various precision munitions carried by the F-14. Data is fed to the pod by the Tomcat’s AWG-9 (F-14A and F-14B) and AN/APG-71 (F-14D) radar, but the LTS in turn only sends video and guidance symbology to the crew's cockpit displays. This means that few wiring and software changes had to be made to the Tomcat in order for it to operate the LTS. All pod controls are in the RIO’s cockpit, but the bomb release button is situated with the pilot. The LTS had a price tag of around 3 million US Dollars each and due to these high costs, only 75 were bought for fleet use. Typically, an F-14 squadron brought 6 to 8 pods with them on deployment, which would be permanently fitted to the non-TARPS jets."

 

This quote is also from a book I recently read US Navy F-14 Tomcat units of operation Iraqi Freedom. A very good book. I remember reading this quote at the time and it puzzled me.

What I could not determine and maybe somebody could expain if they have a better understanding of the Tomcats radar. When it says data is fed from the aircrafts radar awg-9 F-14a/F-14b AN/APG-71 F-14D. The F-14D makes sense as the radar had ground mapping modes.

But what data could be fed to the pod from the AWG-9 because as far as I was aware it had A2A only modes?

I look forward to hearing from somebody :).

[Dudikoff]

But what data could be fed to the pod from the AWG-9 because as far as I was aware it had A2A only modes? I look forward to hearing from somebody :).

 

I'm unaware of the AWG-9 air to ground modes, but they could be referring to A2A targets too since I've read that they used the LTS pods for target identification since it has a longer range and better resolution than the old TCS system mounted in chin pods.

[westr]

I'm unaware of the AWG-9 air to ground modes, but they could be referring to A2A targets too since I've read that they used the LTS pods for target identification since it has a longer range and better resolution than the old TCS system mounted in chin pods.

 

:)

 

Ok I see what your saying. A bit like how you can lock onto airborne targets with the lightening pod on the A-10 and use sidewinders. Just your getting the data from the radar. Yeah makes sense because unless anybody has any knowledge to the contrary I am pretty sure the AWG-9 has no ground mapping modes.:(

[Dudikoff]

Ok I see what your saying. A bit like how you can lock onto airborne targets with the lightening pod on the A-10 and use sidewinders. Just your getting the data from the radar. Yeah makes sense because unless anybody has any knowledge to the contrary I am pretty sure the AWG-9 has no ground mapping modes.:(

 

You won't lock to a target with LTS to use Sidewinders since you already locked onto it with the radar; the radar just cues the LTS pod to the target so you can zoom it in and perform a visual ID of a distant target.

 

Now, for air to ground, ground mapping is not really necessary for target queuing AFAIK. Ground mapping is just to create a synthetic picture so you can identify and designate targets without a pod, e.g. in low visibility conditions or at a greater range. So, if the AWG-9 radar supported e.g. a moving targets mode (GMT) to detect targets moving against the ground clutter, you could technically lock onto a moving target and then probably queue the pod in that direction the same as for an air target.

 

Now, I'm not a radar expert, but I'd expect such a mode would have been probably easily supported by the AWG-9 (since it's a pulse doppler radar so I presume it needs adjusting the doppler shift and maybe depends how sensitive the ground filtering is if those are even the correct terms), but I don't know if they ever enabled it (provided the controls to select it, etc.). Doubt it, but wouldn't be surprised if they have since similar stuff was supported in F-15A's IIRC (I think it was removed later in C's from the start or in some upgrade phase).

Edited March 4, 2015 by Dudikoff

[westr]

You won't lock to a target with LTS to use Sidewinders since you already locked onto it with the radar; the radar just cues the LTS pod to the target so you can zoom it in and perform a visual ID of a distant target.

 

Now, for air to ground, ground mapping is not really necessary for target queuing AFAIK. Ground mapping is just to create a synthetic picture so you can identify and designate targets without a pod, e.g. in low visibility conditions or at a greater range. So, if the AWG-9 radar supported e.g. a moving targets mode (GMT) to detect targets moving against the ground clutter, you could technically lock onto a moving target and then probably queue the pod in that direction the same as for an air target. Such a mode would probably be easily supported even by the AWG-9 (since it's a pulse doppler radar), but I don't know if they enabled it (provided the controls to select it, etc.). Doubt it, but wouldn't be surprised if they have since similar stuff was supported in F-15A's IIRC.

 

Yeah I wasn't really saying that you would lock a target on the LTS to launch a Aim-9, but that you could. I take your point that it can be used for identification purposes.

I can see what your saying regarding a GMT mode. Would be good if there is somebody who could confirm this. :)

[Dudikoff]

I can see what your saying regarding a GMT mode. Would be good if there is somebody who could confirm this. :)

 

Confirm what? I'm not saying it's there, just that it could technically easily be there, though it wouldn't make much sense for a pure interceptor.

[westr]

Confirm if the F-14a/b had a GMT mode with its Radar?

[SkateZilla]

Confirm if the F-14a/b had a GMT mode with its Radar?

 

A and Bs did not.

[westr]

A and Bs did not.

 

Ok thanks.

 

"The pod also featured an internal computer with ballistics data for the various precision munitions carried by the F-14. Data is fed to the pod by the Tomcat’s AWG-9 (F-14A and F-14B) and AN/APG-71 (F-14D) radar, but the LTS in turn only sends video and guidance symbology to the crew's cockpit displays. This means that few wiring and software changes had to be made to the Tomcat in order for it to operate the LTS. All pod controls are in the RIO’s cockpit, but the bomb release button is situated with the pilot. The LTS had a price tag of around 3 million US Dollars each and due to these high costs, only 75 were bought for fleet use. Typically, an F-14 squadron brought 6 to 8 pods with them on deployment, which would be permanently fitted to the non-TARPS jets."

 

This statement is still somewhat puzzling me. I'm sure data from another aircrafts radar(s) with a ground mode could have been sent to the LTS. I don't think this statement is referring to data from airborne targets although I can see how that would work. I have read this book and it is very much about the ground attack role that the tomcat took on during OIF.

[Dudikoff]

This statement is still somewhat puzzling me. I'm sure data from another aircrafts radar(s) with a ground mode could have been sent to the LTS. I don't think this statement is referring to data from airborne targets although I can see how that would work. I have read this book and it is very much about the ground attack role that the tomcat took on during OIF.

 

You were told that the AWG-9 doesn't have any ground attack modes. And the author most probably doesn't know some secret about the AWG-9 that noone else knows. So, his sources were probably referring to the air to air cueing, but he either got it wrong or just shortened the whole sentence considering the distinction unimportant.

[westr]

I am not disputing the comments regarding a\g modes of the awg-9 simply because I have long believed the radar doesn't have a/g modes. I am also not looking to start an argument over this

I am simply saying that the info in the book is confusing. I accept that the author may have some misinformation. That is a possibility.

[FWind]

There are currently 7 preserved at AMARC :p

 

 

As for Bombcats/F-14B (Upgrade), they replaced COINS w/ EGI NAV as well as a list of over 100 Changes, Which are barely documented publicly, Manuals arent for sale, and ones that are are just re-prints of the freely availible 1070+ page NATOPs Manual.

 

Even if I had one in storage, it'd be illegal for me to do anything with it, which includes scanning pages, etc.

(dad was an AE1 and had Manuals for F-14s, A-6s etc, in a box in his closet for close to 20 years after he retired.)

 

outside of finding a pilot and SME, and maybe M.A.T.S., they'd need a clear print copy of the F-14B Manual for the BuNos or Block that had the components;.

 

I find F-14B Manual on ebay，but it is dated 1997....

[lunaticfringe]

Came here to discuss the contents of NAVAIR F14AAA-2-2-16.1, Change 6 - October 1985, with all sorts of lovely ATG weapons symbology (to go along with Change 2, 1982, with the air to ground drop sequence and pallet data), staying for the royal fisking delivered to the guy who's dad put up a hangar at Bethpage.

 

Good show, everybody. Popcorn and +1 internetz all around.

[Woogey]

All Tomcats were Air to Ground "Capable." ;)

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=140137&page=2 Post#11