Unable to takeoff

[JG-1_Vogel]

Ok, I'm no expert with prop planes but I'm pretty decent with the Mustang which is pretty nice to fly but this thing is uncontrollable on take off. I set flaps, slowly increase RPM and even put in a little right stick to try and counter torque effect. The thing just veers off to the left regardless of what I do and goes off balance and cartwheels into the ground. What makes this worse is that there aren't even training tracks in place to help you out. I'm all for reading manuals (when I have the time - I work 12 hour shifts and often CBA when I get home) but I'm at a loss and ready just to try something else instead of hitting my head against a wall.

 

Anything I should be aware of trying to get this crate off the ground? No wonder the luftwaffe lost so many pilots on landing/takeoff if this is an accurate representation.

[Derbysieger]

What I usually do:

 

 

• Lock tail wheel after I'm lined up on the runway and roll forward a bit
  
• +1 Trim (nose down)
  
• I usually don't care about flaps but I have used 20° flaps in the past.
  
• Pull the stick all the way back
  
• Slowly increase throttle to about 1.35ATA
  
• correct with right rudder as necessary
  
• At about 90-100km/h IAS I carefully center the stick and push it a little forward. The tail wheel will come up.
  
• keep the Kurfürst centered on the runway and wait until it takes off
  
• Push the stick a bit more forward to avoid stalling. I usually aim for level flight or a slight climb.
  
• Gear up
  
• Flaps up if you use them
  
• At 270km/h I start the climb and try to maintain roughly 270km/h until I'm at the desired altitude.
  
• throttle back to cruise settings (1.1ATA-1.2ATA)
  

Edited March 27, 2015 by Derbysieger

[Random]

1: lock the tailwheel

2: dont worry about flaps

3: open the throttle smoothly but quickly over about a second to get rudder authority ASAP and use FULL right rudder as you do so ;)

[drPhibes]

How I do it: Locked tailwheel, flaps 20°, full right rudder, right toe brake (no pedals, so I have the brakes mapped to two buttons on top of my stick). Increase the speed to 100kph with the tail down, then ease the stick forwards, and the plane usually takes off in a semi-acceptable manner (although I still crash from time to time). It only took around 40 wrecked Bf109s to master the takeoff, and there's still room for improvement.

[Crumpp]

Turn off the auto rudder and take off assist.

 

Use the rudder to keep the aircraft going straight down the runway. Stay ahead of any swing that develops.

 

Here is a good reference for flying taildraggers. It works in DCS. The ground handling is pretty realistic in this game.

 

It is harder in the DCS models because you do not have the tactile clues you have in a real airplane.

 

I watch the canopy frame movement for any directional changes. Keep your eyes focused on the far end of the runway and use the rudder to stop ANY directional deviation.

[SlipBall]

Turn off the auto rudder and take off assist.

 

Use the rudder to keep the aircraft going straight down the runway. Stay ahead of any swing that develops.

 

Here is a good reference for flying taildraggers. It works in DCS. The ground handling is pretty realistic in this game.

 

It is harder in the DCS models because you do not have the tactile clues you have in a real airplane.

 

I watch the canopy frame movement for any directional changes. Keep your eyes focused on the far end of the runway and use the rudder to stop ANY directional deviation.

 

 

I have to disagree with you on this...I think that the rudder needs some work because it cannot be correct as is.

[Crumpp]

Why do you think that GT 5.0? What is experience?

[Random]

I have to disagree with you on this...I think that the rudder needs some work because it cannot be correct as is.

 

 

Looks a lot like my rudder application in DCS. AND thats an Emil... a lot less power.

 

Watch the rudder on the takeoff roll. Full application as the roll starts then reduces as it takes effect dancing on the pedals to keep it straight.

[Roadrunner]

Takeoff Tutorial posted by Wags HERE.

 

 

helped me, although i only watched it while wating for the release of the 109 :D

 

regards,

RR

[SlipBall]

Why do you think that GT 5.0? What is experience?

 

 

Zero with a tail dragger :cry:...I'm able to land on the grass without the need of the rudder so it just seems off to me. But I could certainly be wrong though, my opinion is based on watching rudder use in some 109 Youtube videos :P

[Crumpp]

I'm able to land on the grass without the need of the rudder so it just seems off to me.

 

You mean you do not need a rudder in DCS?? That is not my experience in the game.

 

You can see in WAGS tutorial, his rudder is alive the entire take off run.

 

Taildraggers ALWAYS need rudder input and MUST be controlled/flown from the tie down to the tie down.

 

Much of my flying experience is in tail draggers and because the CG is behind the main wheels, you will not find any taildragger than does not require rudder input to maintain directional control.

 

Read the attached article, "Taming the taildragger".

 

Looks a lot like my rudder application in DCS.

 

:thumbup:

Taming.pdf

[SlipBall]

I was thinking of the ground taxiing and landing not the take off

[lazduc]

80% of my flight time is in tail draggers. Cessna 180, 140, Beech D-18, DC-3 I learned to fly in and around Reno, NV. Mountains and wind. I remember I took a few lessons in San Diego and the flight instructor said she could always tell a tail dragger pilot, we were flying a 152 which is a tricycle type. She said she could not move the rudder since I had such a foot lock on the rudders. LOL Yes its mostly rudder....don't want to use brakes...

[Crumpp]

I was thinking of the ground taxiing and landing not the take off

__________________

 

When the airplane gets below a certain speed, the rudder is no longer effective. That is why you hold the stick back all the time, to help with the tailwheel steering.

 

At taxi speeds, it is mostly differential braking that steers the airplane.

[SlipBall]

80% of my flight time is in tail draggers. Cessna 180, 140, Beech D-18, DC-3 I learned to fly in and around Reno, NV. Mountains and wind. I remember I took a few lessons in San Diego and the flight instructor said she could always tell a tail dragger pilot, we were flying a 152 which is a tricycle type. She said she could not move the rudder since I had such a foot lock on the rudders. LOL Yes its mostly rudder....don't want to use brakes...

 

 

So you did most of your taxiing using the rudder, with the real tail draggers that you have flown??...how bout turns to starboard?

[Crumpp]

Yes its mostly rudder....don't want to use brakes...

 

You must be refering to take off and landing where you do not touch the brakes. Once the speed gets slow, you have to brake in a taildragger to control it. I have even added some brake on a rollout in a gusty crosswind to keep directional control. That is a dance in a 180hp Supercub with heel brakes.

 

 

So you did most of your taxiing using the rudder, with the real tail draggers that you have flown??...how bout turns to starboard?

 

It depends on the speed you are taxing GT 5.0. Unless you are taxing very fast, rudder is NOT the primary control. The rudder does not work without sufficient airflow over it.

 

Read Chapter 3 of taildragger tactics.

 

Here is MY taildragger and flying one for pay.

Edited March 27, 2015 by Crumpp

[lazduc]

I was taught to very rarely use my brakes. Larger heaver aircraft and some particular types need braking. Yes you can turn starboard using the rudder control if equipped with steerable tail wheel. Taxing twins is a different animal. Steering is done with differential power. On the Beech D-18 braking was decided by who wanted to .....LOL Brakes had a shuttle that allowed only one seat to have braking. Transition from taxing to roll out and take off require a balance of the forces acting on the aircraft. Its also dependent on a number of other factors....cross wind, temp, tires, surface...in a real aircraft...you get a feel for everything....in this sim it will just take practice.

Taking off in a cross wind on one wheel is not uncommon.

[Page.Down]

 

My first successful take-off utilizing a different method I saw on another video.

 

Feel free to skip ahead to the take off part. 5:10 mark

 

He said to use +1 nose down trim, I use +2.

 

You do not need to push forward doing it this way.

 

Pull full back on stick and full right aileron, 70% right rudder authority while accelerating.

 

Slowly move the stick to center when speed reaches 50-100km/h but keep on the rudder authority 50-70%

 

Then let the plane take off by itself. Try not to over compensate during slip if it occurs.

Edited March 28, 2015 by Page.Down

[Crumpp]

I was taught to very rarely use my brakes.

 

That is hard to do in a taildragger that is supposed to be steered with differential braking.

 

Now, I am off the brakes completely on take off roll and landing until the speed slows down to taxi speeds.

 

My airplane has a place to slide your feet under the toe brakes on the pedals to ensure you are completely off of them.

[Diplocaulus]

Took me some practice, but it can be done. ;)

[Random]

That is hard to do in a taildragger that is supposed to be steered with differential braking.

 

Now, I am off the brakes completely on take off roll and landing until the speed slows down to taxi speeds.

 

My airplane has a place to slide your feet under the toe brakes on the pedals to ensure you are completely off of them.

 

Ever fly a supercub? They have HEEL brakes. Must be rather easy to stomp on them while using the rudder!

[Anatoli-Kagari9]

Page.Down,

 

try to keep alignement with the RW centreline up to gear retract. This will help you achieve even better coordination and takeoff procedure training.

 

You were also a bit slow responding to the left drift on the initial takeoff run. Smoothly but promptly refuse any "aircraft intentions" to do what you do not want it to do... Be pro-active!

 

I use only full rudder, and ease along the takeoff run, full stick back, immediately eased after the first few meters of the takeoff run, and a bit of right stick. Trim at -1, flaps at around 14º

[Crumpp]

Ever fly a supercub? They have HEEL brakes. Must be rather easy to stomp on them while using the rudder!

 

Crumpp says:

You must be refering to take off and landing where you do not touch the brakes. Once the speed gets slow, you have to brake in a taildragger to control it. I have even added some brake on a rollout in a gusty crosswind to keep directional control. That is a dance in a 180hp Supercub with heel brakes.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2361699&postcount=16

 

I only have about 400 hours in the Supercub so I am not that experienced in it.

[Nevyn]

You mean you do not need a rudder in DCS?? That is not my experience in the game.

 

You can see in WAGS tutorial, his rudder is alive the entire take off run.

 

Taildraggers ALWAYS need rudder input and MUST be controlled/flown from the tie down to the tie down.

 

Much of my flying experience is in tail draggers and because the CG is behind the main wheels, you will not find any taildragger than does not require rudder input to maintain directional control.

 

Read the attached article, "Taming the taildragger".

 

 

 

:thumbup:

 

 

Thanks for this bro, I can relate to the “There are no squirrely airplanes, just squirrely pilots.”, I am one of those. I remember thinking with the P-51D, how can anybody fly this thing without having a nervous breakdown, but got easier as time went on, smoother, I still suck though, but not as much as I did, I can taxi and get into the air with most of the plane still intact, Great Success as Borat would say.

[Page.Down]

Page.Down,

 

try to keep alignement with the RW centreline up to gear retract. This will help you achieve even better coordination and takeoff procedure training.

 

You were also a bit slow responding to the left drift on the initial takeoff run. Smoothly but promptly refuse any "aircraft intentions" to do what you do not want it to do... Be pro-active!

 

I use only full rudder, and ease along the takeoff run, full stick back, immediately eased after the first few meters of the takeoff run, and a bit of right stick. Trim at -1, flaps at around 14º

 

 

Bare in mind,

 

I am not a real life pilot. I have never flown anything in real life. So some of the terminology is foreign to me right now. Let alone what the proper procedure would be to compensate for certain things. I don't know what you mean RW line; And I know I slipped on take off, but I was more focused on not over compensating, because the last time I tried to correct slip I rolled over and crashed.

 

I can't use trim at -1; The plane pulls up sharply on take-off naturally at +1; let alone without flaps; I didn't use flaps during take off at all. And, +2 made it perfect such that it doesn't pull up and it's easier to fly level. At any given speed, I actually fly at +2 normally anything less and the plane has to be compensated with nose down on the stick. This is unnatural for anyone to maintain. IF it can be avoided via trimming, then it makes the plane easier to fly in general.

 

I have been able to take off in bad weather conditions using this method as well such as at night, in snow, with a cross wind when I was playing the campaign mission through.

 

I still need to perfect the technique obviously, but for a first time trying that technique it was way easier, than trying to maintain control with the toe brakes, which can cause top heavy roll and the wings can clip the ground at higher speeds.

 

I dread having to learn to land because I know I'm going to have a huge problem with slowing down.