Roger Ramjet Posted March 28, 2015 Posted March 28, 2015 Have you guys noticed any difference between flight dynamics with rear doors closed or opened? Because i haven`t. Is it realistic? The only thing i`ve found about that flight dynamics with doors opened is the speed limits for flight with the doors opened. Anyway for now you can fly 120knots with door opened and nothing bad happens. What do you guys think? Excuse my English, please.
Cibit Posted March 29, 2015 Posted March 29, 2015 Just makes it louder for me, no noticable change in flight behaviour:) i5 8600k@5.2Ghz, Asus Prime A Z370, 32Gb DDR4 3000, GTX1080 SC, Oculus Rift CV1, Modded TM Warthog Modded X52 Collective, Jetseat, W10 Pro 64 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Adding JTAC Guide //My Vid's//229th AHB
=Mac= Posted March 29, 2015 Posted March 29, 2015 Yup. I flew (MP) cross country from Novo to Sochi along the coast with the doors open as well as closed. I had a constant 100 knots with occasional shivers into the 120 realm, both with the doors open as well as closed. No change except sound. Don't know if that's realistic or not. Have to ask someone who flies the real eggbeaters. The Hornet is best at killing things on the ground. Now, if we could just get a GAU-8 in the nose next to the AN/APG-65, a titanium tub around the pilot, and a couple of J-58 engines in the tail...
AlphaOneSix Posted March 29, 2015 Posted March 29, 2015 I don't remember there being any difference with the doors opened or closed, but I have not gone 120 knots with them open, either. This is in a Bell 412, but I don't think that matters. 2
Roger Ramjet Posted March 29, 2015 Author Posted March 29, 2015 Thanks a lot guys. I was wrong - there`s no limits for flight with doors opened, the manual states in chapter 5-10 The helicopter can be flown up to Vne with the cabin doors locked in the full opened position only if the appropriate modifications heve been made to the cabin doors and airframe http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uva.x004969002;view=1up;seq=100 Anyway - anyone knows what modifications the manual is talking about? On the other hand i think there`s should be a difference in FM. When i drive my car >100km/h and open windows i feel the difference in my car`s behaviour. The stronger the winds (highway with open fields around) - the difference is more noticeable.I can even see the difference when i open the sunroof. In Huey, there`s BIG doors - when you open then there`s a huge amount in the air hits the interior. Can anyone can confirm or deny that? P.S. I don`t state there`s a bad FM or a bug.I`m just wondering - if it`s realistic behaviour or not. Excuse my English, please.
Devrim Posted March 29, 2015 Posted March 29, 2015 Yea, I've always wondered this, too. Asked someone, but got no good answer... Currently Huey's FM is great, but they should add something for opened doors, at least for forward flight. Because when you open the doors, you create a huge hole in the airframe, and you feel no difference on flight behavior, no even a little bit weird force or trim requirement on stick... I don't know, I feel something wrong at this point... Intel i7-14700@5.6GHz | MSI RTX4080 SuperSuprimX | Corsair V. 64GB@6400MHz. | Samsung 1TB 990 PRO SSD (Win10Homex64) Samsung G5 32" + Samsung 18" + 2x8"TFT Displays | TM Warthog Stick w/AVA Base | VPC MongoosT-50CM3 Throttle | TM MFD Cougars | Logitech G13, G230, G510, PZ55 & Farming Sim Panel | TIR5 & M.Quest3 VR >>MY MODS<< | Discord: Devrim#1068
b00ce Posted March 29, 2015 Posted March 29, 2015 It may have to do with removing soundproofing from the walls and securing the door better so it doesn't vibrate as much and ruin the door tracks. But that's just an educated guess... LG 34UC97 34" 3440x1440 monitor | 2x GTX-980 G1 Gaming I7-5820k @ 3.3GHz | 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4 @ 2133Mhz Samsung 840 EVO 120GB & 1TB SSDs | Seagate 3TB HDD TM Warthog | Saitek Pro Flight Combat Pedals
escaner Posted March 30, 2015 Posted March 30, 2015 From the Huey manual: no additional drag either with cargo doors open. The only limitation I have seen is that you should not exceed 50 KIAS with just one cargo door open. Section VI. DRAG 7.1-26. Description. The drag chart (Figure 7.1-7, sheet 1 of 2) shows the equivalent flat plate drag area changes for additional authorized configurations. There is no increase in drag with cargo doors fully open. What I really find unrealistic is how you can open the cockpit doors in flight and keep them like that. I remember once in a Cessna 152 my door unlatched and had a hard time to open it enough so I could pull with force and latch it again. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Devrim Posted March 30, 2015 Posted March 30, 2015 ...how you can open the cockpit doors in flight...You mean, when no soldier at rear section? If yes, you're right about that. I didn't think about that before. :) Maybe it should be opened on the ground by ground crew. :) But, maybe co-pilot or pilot can get up and open/close the doors, in flight. :P Intel i7-14700@5.6GHz | MSI RTX4080 SuperSuprimX | Corsair V. 64GB@6400MHz. | Samsung 1TB 990 PRO SSD (Win10Homex64) Samsung G5 32" + Samsung 18" + 2x8"TFT Displays | TM Warthog Stick w/AVA Base | VPC MongoosT-50CM3 Throttle | TM MFD Cougars | Logitech G13, G230, G510, PZ55 & Farming Sim Panel | TIR5 & M.Quest3 VR >>MY MODS<< | Discord: Devrim#1068
Flagrum Posted March 30, 2015 Posted March 30, 2015 You mean, when no soldier at rear section? If yes, you're right about that. I didn't think about that before. :) Maybe it should be opened on the ground by ground crew. :) But, maybe co-pilot or pilot can get up and open/close the doors, in flight. :P I think, he means it should not be possible because of pressure of the moving air mass when flying at higher speeds. I am not exactly sure how the door mechanism works, but I think you have to push the door outward a bit before you can pull it back/open. But at speeds of 200+ km/h I would suspect that you could not move such a large dor a single inch ...? On the other hand - regarding the drag - when you watch videos you'll notice that there is not much "wind" inside the cabin when the doors are open. It seems that the open doors really don't "catch" much wind - usually the hair-do of passengers riding in the back is not much affected by it at least.
escaner Posted March 30, 2015 Posted March 30, 2015 You mean, when no soldier at rear section? If yes, you're right about that. I didn't think about that before. :) Maybe it should be opened on the ground by ground crew. :) But, maybe co-pilot or pilot can get up and open/close the doors, in flight. :P Actually I meant the front (car like) pilot & copilot doors. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
AlphaOneSix Posted March 30, 2015 Posted March 30, 2015 The cabin doors slide straight back, they don't have to go out at all first. Besides, I don't think it's allowable to open them or close them with much forward airspeed, they need to be opened at low airspeed and pinned in place (just a single pin that locks them in the open position.
iFoxRomeo Posted March 30, 2015 Posted March 30, 2015 Have you guys noticed any difference between flight dynamics with rear doors closed or opened? Because i haven`t. Is it realistic? The only thing i`ve found about that flight dynamics with doors opened is the speed limits for flight with the doors opened. Anyway for now you can fly 120knots with door opened and nothing bad happens. What do you guys think? Thanks a lot guys. I was wrong - there`s no limits for flight with doors opened, the manual states in chapter 5-10 http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uva.x004969002;view=1up;seq=100 Anyway - anyone knows what modifications the manual is talking about? On the other hand i think there`s should be a difference in FM. When i drive my car >100km/h and open windows i feel the difference in my car`s behaviour. The stronger the winds (highway with open fields around) - the difference is more noticeable.I can even see the difference when i open the sunroof. In Huey, there`s BIG doors - when you open then there`s a huge amount in the air hits the interior. Can anyone can confirm or deny that? P.S. I don`t state there`s a bad FM or a bug.I`m just wondering - if it`s realistic behaviour or not. There is no difference with the sliding doors open or closed. Yea, I've always wondered this, too. Asked someone, but got no good answer... Currently Huey's FM is great, but they should add something for opened doors, at least for forward flight. Because when you open the doors, you create a huge hole in the airframe, and you feel no difference on flight behavior, no even a little bit weird force or trim requirement on stick... I don't know, I feel something wrong at this point... Why add something that probably doesn´t exist in the real Huey? Or lets say: This is not easy to answer. As you´re not allowed to operate the doors at speeds above 50KIAS it is hard to say if there is a immediate difference for the trim position when operating them at 120KIAS. But once opened below 50KIAS and then accelerated to 120KIAS the Huey flies and feels the same way as if they were closed. I hope that was understandable. I think, he means it should not be possible because of pressure of the moving air mass when flying at higher speeds. Both directions are possible. Either you can´t open the door, or it gets sucked out. But completely open as on the ground is not possible. I am not exactly sure how the door mechanism works, but I think you have to push the door outward a bit before you can pull it back/open. But at speeds of 200+ km/h I would suspect that you could not move such a large dor a single inch ...? No such push/pull mechanism. As soon as you unlock the door by rotating the handle you have the behavior of a garden door without locking mechanism that is hinged to the helicopter. On the other hand - regarding the drag - when you watch videos you'll notice that there is not much "wind" inside the cabin when the doors are open. It seems that the open doors really don't "catch" much wind - usually the hair-do of passengers riding in the back is not much affected by it at least. As long as the "ball" is centered its only a breeze. But when you slip with the pedals you get a hurricane inside the helicopter. The cabin doors slide straight back, they don't have to go out at all first. Besides, I don't think it's allowable to open them or close them with much forward airspeed, they need to be opened at low airspeed and pinned in place (just a single pin that locks them in the open position. Yes, 50KIAS maximum for operating the sliding door(s). If both doors are closed and locked or both doors are open and secured with the pin, Vne applies. Fox Spoiler PC Specs: Ryzen 9 5900X, 3080ti, 64GB RAM, Oculus Quest 3
b00ce Posted March 30, 2015 Posted March 30, 2015 As long as the "ball" is centered its only a breeze. But when you slip with the pedals you get a hurricane inside the helicopter. Speaking from personal experience, it is HORRIBLE when cabin doors are open and the pilot is flying out of trim. I'm glad I have the face shield for my flight helmet because the seatbelt straps go crazy. Also the wind hitting your helmet is deafening, even through CEPs (little ear plugs/buds that go under the ear cup of the helmet for extra sound dampening). LG 34UC97 34" 3440x1440 monitor | 2x GTX-980 G1 Gaming I7-5820k @ 3.3GHz | 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4 @ 2133Mhz Samsung 840 EVO 120GB & 1TB SSDs | Seagate 3TB HDD TM Warthog | Saitek Pro Flight Combat Pedals
Roger Ramjet Posted May 8, 2015 Author Posted May 8, 2015 What I really find unrealistic is how you can open the cockpit doors in flight and keep them like that. I remember once in a Cessna 152 my door unlatched and had a hard time to open it enough so I could pull with force and latch it again. Well I`ve tested it in the sim. If you open the front doors they will close itself at about 50-60 knots. From that point it`s impossble to open then. P.S.Sorry for answering in the 2months old post. Excuse my English, please.
Snarf Posted May 22, 2015 Posted May 22, 2015 I never noticed a difference when flying in Huey's but we were not allowed to open the doors in flight as they had to be pinned back on the ground. Apparently there was a danger of the doors going through the stops if opened at speed and damaging the aircraft. On one occasion at least having the doors open caused the loss of the aircraft. The fabric panels which clip on around the main gearbox in the cabin came loose and one of them despite the efforts of the crewman was sucked out the door. Of course anything that goes out the door and is relatively light or aerodynamic tends to go up as the air is generally moving up close to the fuselage. This carried the insulation sheets back where they took out the tail rotor causing the pilots to have to auto.
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