I cannot get to full speed!

[LeCuvier]

I found it very hard to master this capricious lady after flying mostly jet planes, but I love her! My main concern is speed. I watched the Erich Brunotte interview several times (being a native German speaker I focused on what he says rather than the English subtitles).

rather at the beginning he says that he tried maximum speed and got to 750 km/h. Now that may be in a descent. But he went on to say "Kampfgeschwindigkeit von 630 war gar nichts". This implies to me that he reached 630 km/h easily. Later on he says that they very rarely used emergency power, even in combat unless they had to make extreme maneuvres or run for their life. So I assume he reached 630 without emergency power, i.e. at 3000 RPM. Also his statement implies to me that he probably reached 630 easily in level flight.

I get nowhere near these performances. Here is what I got (all at 1500 m altitude, level flight, with MW50 activated):

1.5 ata 3000 RPM 500 km/h

1.9 ata 3250 RPM 560 km/h

All control surfaces are in neutral position (I verified in F2 external view)

What could I be doing wrong????

I'd be really grateful for a solution that gets me up to speed literally!

 

Some data I found on the net:

1. Site avionslegendaires for the FW-190 A-3 (less powerful engine) had a maximum speed at 6000 m of 615 km/h

2. Wikipedia.org, for the FW-190 D-9: 685 km/h (426 mph) at 6,600 m (21,655 ft), 710 km/h (440 mph) at 11,000 m (36,000 ft)

Edited August 14, 2015 by LeCuvier
Found some data

[Solty]

You have few misconceptions here. First of all max speed for an aircraft is achievable at certain altitudes.

 

The max speed of Fw190 is not 750kph, at least not in a level flight. As I remember 750 was the max safety level of speed for Bf109G serries.

 

Highest attained speed was with C3 fuel with 3250RPM, its around 704kph(TAS) at ~5500m and it was a plane with the engine gap sealed. Most 190s didn't have the engine gap sealed as the seal itself was hard to manufacture and its cost was high and made the process of production slower. But we have B4 fuel + MW50 at 1.8 ata (btw you coudn't have gone 1.9 ata in a plane that has max 1.8 ata)

 

Bear in mind that most Fw190D9s didn't have MW50 instalation and flew on B4 fuel. C3 fuel was more common for more rugged, radial A models.

 

 

 

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/fw190/fw190d9test.html

Edited August 14, 2015 by Solty

[LeCuvier]

Response to Solty comments re max speed

 

You have few misconceptions here. First of all max speed for an aircraft is achievable at certain altitudes.

 

The max speed of Fw190 is not 750kph, at least not in a level flight. As I remember 750 was the max safety level of speed for Bf109G serries.

 

Highest attained speed was with C3 fuel with 3250RPM, its around 704kph(TAS) at ~5500m and it was a plane with the engine gap sealed. Most 190s didn't have the engine gap sealed as the seal itself was hard to manufacture and its cost was high and made the process of production slower. But we have B4 fuel + MW50 at 1.8 ata (btw you coudn't have gone 1.9 ata in a plane that has max 1.8 ata)

 

Bear in mind that most Fw190D9s didn't have MW50 instalation and flew on B4 fuel. C3 fuel was more common for more rugged, radial A models.

Hi Solty, thanks for responding.

I'm not aiming for the 750 km/h or any max speed obtained only in special circumstances. I'm trying to get near the 630 km/h that according to Erich Brunotte was not a big deal.

Also your charts indicate (I suppose these are land miles per hour; not nautical miles) that the bird could make 630 km/h without problems.

So the question remains, why can't I get even to 600?

Some remarks:

1. I have tried again, and yes the indicated manifold pressure is slightly above 1.9 ata at full throttle with MW50 (I had to skew the cockpit view in order to read the pressure scale in this range but the needle is slightly above the 1.9 mark). Also the last one of your curves indicates 2.2 ata

2. The DCS sim has the MW50 option so I don't care whether or not most of the birds in 1944 were equipped with it

Lastly a question: what is this ETC

[Flying-Kane]

Some data I found on the net:

1. Site avionslegendaires for the FW-190 A-3 (less powerful engine) had a maximum speed at 6000 m of 615 km/h

2. Wikipedia.org, for the FW-190 D-9: 685 km/h (426 mph) at 6,600 m (21,655 ft), 710 km/h (440 mph) at 11,000 m (36,000 ft)

 

1. The A-3 could reach 660km/h at 6000m (Notleistung). But they had to reduce the power output until mid 42, because of engine problems. I think the 615 km/h are Kampfleistung, but even then it's very low.

 

2. I don't know where they get that speed from. 710km/h in 11.000 meters?

Never, with GM1 injection maybe, or another Dora version.

 

 

The ETC is the "Bombenschloss" (bomb rack).

[Solty]

Hi Solty, thanks for responding.

I'm not aiming for the 750 km/h or any max speed obtained only in special circumstances. I'm trying to get near the 630 km/h that according to Erich Brunotte was not a big deal.

Also your charts indicate (I suppose these are land miles per hour; not nautical miles) that the bird could make 630 km/h without problems.

So the question remains, why can't I get even to 600?

Some remarks:

1. I have tried again, and yes the indicated manifold pressure is slightly above 1.9 ata at full throttle with MW50 (I had to skew the cockpit view in order to read the pressure scale in this range but the needle is slightly above the 1.9 mark). Also the last one of your curves indicates 2.2 ata

2. The DCS sim has the MW50 option so I don't care whether or not most of the birds in 1944 were equipped with it

Lastly a question: what is this ETC

 

 

 

Yes its MPH. Check those and any other charts for speed at an altitude and then try to obtain it. Also remember its TAS. In cockpit you have IAS they are not equal. 2.02 ATA is rated for C3 fuel

 

1. Either Gauge or the model is broken. It should be 1.8 it's a factory preset for that engine and its output with B4 fuel.

2. Fine geez. Just sayn. U don't have to be mean.

 

ETC is a rack under the belly.

Edited August 14, 2015 by Solty

[Yo-Yo]

1. Either Gauge or the model is broken. It should be 1.8 it's a factory preset for that engine and its output with B4 fuel.

 

Negative. Jumo-213 maintains air mass flow rather than the certain MP. So, MP changes with altitude and air temperature. So, the factory documents very rare refer to the MP gauge.

[Solty]

Negative. Jumo-213 maintains air mass flow rather than the certain MP. So, MP changes with altitude and air temperature. So, the factory documents very rare refer to the MP gauge.

But isn't breaching recomended ATA dangerous for the engine? I mean there must have been a reason for letting some ATA settings to be suitable for different fuel types.

 

I thought its just like in the 109, where (K4) can fly only at max 1.8 ata with B4+MW50 and at 1.98 with C3 fuel. I've read that any higher than that for DB engine would be deadly for it(EDIT: Flying with B4 fuel at 1.98 ata would mean quicker engine death). So is it different with the Jumo-213?

 

Is there a max ATA rating for a fuel type?

 

 

Edited August 14, 2015 by Solty

[Yo-Yo]

But isn't breaching recomended ATA dangerous for the engine? I mean there must have been a reason for letting some ATA settings to be suitable for different fuel types.

 

I thought its just like in the 109, where (K4) can fly only at max 1.8 ata with B4+MW50 and at 1.98 with C3 fuel. I've read that any higher than that for DB engine would be deadly for it(EDIT: Flying with B4 fuel at 1.98 ata would mean quicker engine death). So is it different with the Jumo-213?

 

Is there a max ATA rating for a fuel type?

 

 

There is no certain MP, especially for different engines, because detonation, presuming engine pressure ratio almost equal, depends on both - pressure and temperature - so, different engines can have different air temperatures for the same pressure. I'd say (though I can check the exact numbers) that Jumo-213 has lower temperature at the same MP because DB engines always overboost the maximal MP, and the excessive pressure (but not the excessive heating!) is cut with the throttle. Indirectly, the fact that 213 could run at 1.55+ ata and 605 not more than at 1.42 proves it.

[LeCuvier]

YoYo, thanks for clarifying the MP subject!

But I'd like to get to an answer to my speed problem. Why can't I get anywhere near the 600 km/h. I understand that IAS is not the same as TAS, but I operate mostly around 2000 m above sea level and at that altitude IAS should not be a lot less than TAS?

[scottb613]

Hi LeCuvier,

 

Given your supplied parameters - if I'm doing my math correctly (converted to US and back again) on a standard day - your indicated airspeed (IAS) should be around 537 k/hr to have a true airspeed (TAS) of 600km/h...

 

Regards,

Scott

[Yo-Yo]

YoYo, thanks for clarifying the MP subject!

But I'd like to get to an answer to my speed problem. Why can't I get anywhere near the 600 km/h. I understand that IAS is not the same as TAS, but I operate mostly around 2000 m above sea level and at that altitude IAS should not be a lot less than TAS?

 

With MW-50 Dora flies ~ 600 at SL, MSA (IAS=TAS) in pure level flight.

 

"Combat speed" Erich meant is a speed (IAS of course, because pilots rarely remeber TAS) that the plane shows during the energy maneouvring including diving, climbing, etc and 650 and even 750 is really nothing for these conditions. It's not the maximal speed of pure level flight.

[Anatoli-Kagari9]

With MW-50 Dora flies ~ 600 at SL, MSA (IAS=TAS) in pure level flight.

 

"Combat speed" Erich meant is a speed (IAS of course, because pilots rarely remeber TAS) that the plane shows during the energy maneouvring including diving, climbing, etc and 650 and even 750 is really nothing for these conditions. It's not the maximal speed of pure level flight.

 

When we engage Mw-50, but then use normal range ATA ( between 0.9 and 1.1 ), if it remains switched on, can this be problematic ? Should we always disengage the Mw-50 when we do not need to use it ?

[Mobius_cz]

MW-50 is in use only on full throttle. You can always have MW-50 switched on and do not use it.

[Anatoli-Kagari9]

MW-50 is in use only on full throttle. You can always have MW-50 switched on and do not use it.

 

 

Ok, thx for the enlightenment. That's actually how I have been using it, but I once blew my engine, and I was only at 1.2 ATA, so, I thought it was because of the Mw-50 being switched on... Probably the cause was a hit I was not aware of...

[golani79]

Ok, thx for the enlightenment. That's actually how I have been using it, but I once blew my engine, and I was only at 1.2 ATA, so, I thought it was because of the Mw-50 being switched on... Probably the cause was a hit I was not aware of...

 

Could have had several issues - also watch your speed.

Don´t get too slow during maneuvers.

[Narushima]

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=128354