Accurate 3D models of Warthog gimbals

[xoxen]

Hi everybody.

Have a Warthog now and am pleased so far. The stickiness is existent at mine as well and I want to grease it up. As I have an extension I fear that I damage the gimbals (especially the inner ball) when unscrewing and reassembling the stick. I like to be secure and have the chance to replace immidiately if something happens. Thrustmaster isn't of help for the gimbals so I'm asking here in the community if anyone has an accurate 3D model of the inner ball, the pins and even better, the whole set. Best would be SolidWorks but everything else would be fine as well.

Thanks,

Roland

 

P.S.: If somebody sells them printed already this would be fine, too :)

Edited August 22, 2015 by xoxen
P.S. added

[Sokol1_br]

Ask Thrustmaster for "Articulation Sphere" - cost ~27Euros.

 

The guy there DIY one - he don't make this for sold - maybe he share the Solidworks drawing:

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/2420-hotas-warthog-zamena-vnutrennego-sharnira/

Edited August 22, 2015 by Sokol1_br

[xoxen]

Thanks Sokol,

I first will try to contact Thrustmaster again and try to get the mentioned part (I believe this only can better fit compared to a self made part).

If I fail again I will try to contact the one in the link, even though I do not speak a word in russian. I expect him to speak english?!

Thanks,

Xoxen

[Sokol1_br]

... I do not speak a word in russian. I expect him to speak english?!

 

Register there and try PM the guy in English.

[Sokol1_br]

BTW - The 3D file for the sphere (Сфера) is in the topic, in .STEP (CAD) format:

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_id=19825

[xoxen]

Very good find, thanks a lot. Was not able to read it and also had no time so far to use google translator. Will have a look at it when I´m at home.

Thanks again and have a great rest of the day.

Roland

 

P.S.: I was able to register and download the part, thanks again. Google translator isn´t bad, I was able to understand everything.

Edited August 28, 2015 by xoxen

[xoxen]

Hi,

I just would like to share that I have a very good communication with Thrustmaster - finally.

I simply responded to the automatic answer after 10 days and then I received response. I requested if I will lose warranty by greasing up my Articulation spere (at the Warthog it is not called gimbals anymore I was told). Only in case of a breakage happening during regreasing I will lose it. My fault, now they have my name ;)

They offered the inner ball and lower part of the sphere to me for a reasonable price and I will see what I do now.

I just wanted to share that Thrustmaster custumer support isn't as bad.

Xoxen

[Corbett1403]

Accurate 3D models of Warthog gimbals

 

But why are they charging for parts if it's a manufacture problem with Sticktion. As this is an ongoing problem with this stick they should recall the products and sought the problem out. Look at how much it costs us to buy and to have this problem. We as the consumer should not have to be taken apart expensive electrical products to sought out a factory problem. This wouldn't be allowed if this was an Xbox controller.

[xoxen]

Generally you are right. I don't see the stickyness as a total show stopper. So I'm fine with the re-greasing thing. From the engineering perspective I agree that TM should do some rework on the warthog to get rid of the small flaws. Especially this one can be sorted out quite easy.

Xoxen

 

P.S.: The spare parts are just for security reasons but not really necessary.

[SinusoidDelta]

I can have the gimbal components 3D scanned with micron accuracy if it would be beneficial. What are you planning to do with the 3D model?

 

Edit:

TM makes the stick feel very "aerospace grade" with the exposed machined surface (which is clearly the surface finish created by a bandsaw), it weighs a ton, the outrageous centering spring and the hefty price tag. It may have 4 trillion points of resolution with "space age" hall sensors but if the mechanics of the stick are this bad, whats the point? Not much on the stick or throttle was built to last, almost everything inside the base is plastic.... luckily their customer service sounds pretty good.

 

The extension is the essential part, it basically cures the problem with brute force. I need to get one. Last night I changed the 4 compression springs for stiffer ones, cleaned the gimbal, and applied lithium grease. It feels like a totally different stick now, in a good way.

Edited November 10, 2015 by SinusoidDelta

[Sierra99]

Hi,

I just would like to share that I have a very good communication with Thrustmaster - finally.

I simply responded to the automatic answer after 10 days and then I received response. I requested if I will lose warranty by greasing up my Articulation spere (at the Warthog it is not called gimbals anymore I was told). Only in case of a breakage happening during regreasing I will lose it. My fault, now they have my name ;)

They offered the inner ball and lower part of the sphere to me for a reasonable price and I will see what I do now.

I just wanted to share that Thrustmaster custumer support isn't as bad.

Xoxen

 

Hey xoxen...

 

When you ordered the part is this what you received or just the inner ball?

 

 

Thanks in advance

 

Sierra

[FeistyLemur]

I ordered an extra articulation sphere from thrustmaster and it was the inner and outer ball as pictured above, with the plastic pins all assembled.

 

And then promptly disassembled and sanded smooth.

 

It was really easy to get them to send it. I called and had a 5 minute phone conversation and said send me an articulation sphere. They took my credit card number and that was that.

 

I kind of have a notion to try to design a 3d printed replacement for the whole slide plate that applies downforce and rides on the 4 metal rails. I was thinking that this is where the vast majority of stickiness comes from in the Warthog. And if one was to have it ride on those 4 metal rails with linear ball bearings, like a 3d printer mechanism, that it should be much smoother than the actual design with the stupid teflon ring that scrapes all the grease off the posts. Assuming it works, it should be really cheap to make too. The 3d printed part would likely be very little, and the linear ball bearings are trivial in cost. The only question is whether there's enough room inside the base to do this. There may not be, at least using the big main spring. It might necessitate replacing that with individual springs over each post. I don't have a good caliper so I bought a nice one and am waiting for it to arrive and then I think I'm going to experiment with this and see if I can design something that works to print on shapeways.

Edited August 30, 2016 by FeistyLemur

[Sokol1_br]

And if you remove this 4 rails, what make the gimbal disc remain parallel and act as "piston".

 

Without the rails the spring disk will work as Suncom "Saturn ring" (or T.16000M0 gimbal, this don't blend the X,Y axis input forces much.

[FeistyLemur]

No the rails would remain as they are now. Just my idea is to print the ring with larger holes and insert linear ball bearings into the holes that match the size and centering of the rails.

 

The holes in the current ring are off center and the teflon disc above is the centered part. So you would have a hard time drilling this out to fit, and it would be destructive, the end of the original part, and no going back. Plus there does not appear to be room for it to fit within the dimensions given the available sizes of linear ball bearings. Basically the outer diameter of a 4mm linear ball bearing is 8mm (and I am assuming the rails are about 4mm as I haven't measured them yet). So this would encroach on the big springs space. However if you replaced the big spring with 4 individual smaller springs it could potentially work.

 

Also I have not researched whether linear ball bearings are even available in the exact size of the factory rails. I haven't got a caliper yet to measure them. But they probably are since they come in all 1mm increments I can see. It's just whether or not the outer diameter is a problem that is in question.

 

I know some people were basically deleting the big spring, and putting the 4 tiny springs on top of the disc instead. So it definitely should be possible to replace the big spring with stronger single springs than the ones under the disk, that will even support extensions. And if all goes as imagined, it should ride very smoothly like a piston on the rails with ball bearings. Laser or plasma cut steel could work in that case too, because if you eliminate the need for the big spring, and basically just spring the ball bearings individually, all you need is a circular plate with 4 sleeves for bearing mounts on the right centering. But of course, I don't have the facilities to cut up steel and make something like that.

Edited August 30, 2016 by FeistyLemur

[cichlidfan]

I ordered an extra articulation sphere from thrustmaster and it was the inner and outer ball as pictured above, with the plastic pins all assembled.

 

Out of curiosity, what did they charge, including shipping? I might get a spare for myself, as well.

[FeistyLemur]

I can't remember the exact cost it was somewhere around 40 dollars Canadian with shipping at the time. It came from guillemot right in France if I remember right so I think shipping wasn't the cheapest. But I'm pretty sure the price was 27-ish USD for the actual part. Our dollar is completely useless right now here so there's that.

Edited August 30, 2016 by FeistyLemur

[cichlidfan]

I can't remember the exact cost it was somewhere around 40 dollars Canadian with shipping at the time. It came from guillemot right in France if I remember right so I think shipping wasn't the cheapest. But I'm pretty sure the price was 27-ish USD for the actual part. Our dollar is completely useless right now here so there's that.

 

Thanks. A ball park price is fine for my purposes.

 

Yes, I bought some Star Trek coins from the Canadian mint, this year, and the exchange rate was good for me. :)

[Zettman]

If one would produce a Articulation sphere, to use that word, out of metal and simply replace the Plastic one, would that still work or would it interferre with the hall sensors?

 

I'm happy that my Warthog gimbal is still okay after regreasing it several times and getting a stickextension, only cut one of the cables in an accident during my first regrease, nothin what a bit of soldering couldn't fix. I still would prefer a sturdier gimbal, just to be save. It is good to know that TM sells the gimpal as spare parts.

 

Zettman

[FeistyLemur]

I don't know if it would interfere, but the cost of doing it would probably be prohibitive.

 

I know It was the first thing I asked myself about the warthog, but honestly there's no point spending hundreds of dollars on what is already a pretty poor design. To invest that kind of effort you could come up with a cam gimbal that replaces it for less money probably than trying to get someone to turn that tiny ball on a lathe. And it would still have all the same issues, just in metal instead of plastic.

 

If it's possible to make a 20 - 30 dollar solution that replaces the slide plate, and actually works, that would be more of a benefit to be honest than replacing the center ball. It would at least eliminate that stupid teflon ring scraping the posts dry and starting to hop up and down them after a while. I really don't think the majority of stickiness is even related to the center ball to be honest. Once the grease is souped in there, it tends to stay in there.

 

What seems like it would be ideal would be to add tiny little ball bearings to the inner ball as well and metal pins that slide into the teeny tiny bearings, and preferably even screw in tight to the outer ball for a solid lock up. They do make ball bearings that small as well. I just looked at a linked post and see someone already did metal pins. But no one has tried tiny ball bearings.

Edited August 30, 2016 by FeistyLemur

[Sierra99]

I know It was the first thing I asked myself about the warthog, but honestly there's no point spending hundreds of dollars on what is already a pretty poor design.

 

I'm not sure I agree it's a poor design...it's extremely functional considering the cost. The simple fact is this...there are lots of commercial grade USB controllers out there that do the same thing. But they are FAR more expensive. I'll take moderately priced which I can repair if needed verses overly expensive I can't afford any day of the week.

 

Sierra

[FeistyLemur]

Well, it certainly lends to cheap mass production and assembly of the internals by design. So in that respect I guess it's a good design. But I bet they spent a disproportionate amount on the metal handle as opposed to the internals. I have to say the maintenance requirements are a bit much. And the inevitability of that o-ring eventually coming unglued and falling out is pretty awful.

Edited August 30, 2016 by FeistyLemur

[hansangb]

Thanks. A ball park price is fine for my purposes.

 

Yes, I bought some Star Trek coins from the Canadian mint, this year, and the exchange rate was good for me. :)

 

 

I hope they were from the original series! :D

[cichlidfan]

I hope they were from the original series! :D

 

Yes, they were, and they are stunning.

 

http://www.mint.ca/store/buy/star-trek_coins-cat1290023

[aaron886]

Ask Thrustmaster for "Articulation Sphere" - cost ~27Euros.

 

The guy there DIY one - he don't make this for sold - maybe he share the Solidworks drawing:

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/2420-hotas-warthog-zamena-vnutrennego-sharnira/

 

Apologies for the late post. Sokol, I can't rep your posts anymore. Is there anything you don't know about flight sim hardware? This guy misses nothing! :beer:

[hansangb]

Yes, they were, and they are stunning.

 

http://www.mint.ca/store/buy/star-trek_coins-cat1290023

 

 

Nice, I'll sneak it into Christmas, along with ZMorph or X-Carve :D:D