Question on Trimming

[dburne]

Hey guys,

 

Ok so getting back into BS2 after a long hiatus from it. Previously when I was into it before, about as far as I got was doing Parabellum's how to take off and blow things up training mission. I still have a lot to learn. I would really like to get more into it , to where I can do some actual campaign flying.

 

I have been taking off , flying around, and landing to get a feel for flying the Shark again.

 

Regarding trimming the thing, I have tried it both ways with my Warthog. With the central trimmer position checked, and with it unchecked. I read up in the manual and have a fair understanding of the differences. I seem to be somewhat rusty using it, in both ways. I think I am leaning toward using it with it unchecked, just curious what others do for this.

 

Lastly, I see an option there I don't remember having before, and I do not see anything on it in the manual - Rudder trim. Does this mean it also trims the rudder position with it checked, and does not with it not checked? Probably simple as that, but thought I would ask to be sure.

 

Thanks for any tips,

[Yurgon]

I think I am leaning toward using it with it unchecked, just curious what others do for this.

 

Back in the day I used to fly without Central Position Trimmer Mode. I was afraid that if I didn't center the controls (both cyclic and rudder) quickly enough, I would get locked out of the controls and the chopper might crash before I could regain control.

 

After a break from BS2, when I came back to it I switched the option to "On" and found that I suffered from less of a "control bump" when trimming. I think I did lock myself out once or twice, but nowhere near as often as I'd been afraid of.

 

Currently, I have it checked, but I hardly ever fly the Black Shark these days. When I do, it feels pretty responsive, though, so I'll probably stick with this option in case I get back to more Ka-50 action in the future. ;)

 

[...] Rudder trim. Does this mean it also trims the rudder position with it checked, and does not with it not checked? Probably simple as that, but thought I would ask to be sure.

 

This option is still relatively new (previously, there was a popular mod that many people used to achieve the same result).

 

Your assumption is correct. The default behavior is that Rudder Trim is checked, so whenever you push the trim button, the rudder is also trimmed and you can (and should) return your rudder pedals to the center position.

 

As hinted above, with Central Position Trimmer Mode, you are actually required to center your rudder pedals after trimming or you'll be locked out of both cyclic and rudder until you do.

 

My preference is to uncheck "Rudder Trim". I have no problems constantly applying force to my pedals, and this is also the Huey's and Mi-8's default behavior, so with "Rudder Trim" unchecked, the 3 helos fly alike in regards to rudder+trim behavior.

 

Hope that helps. :)

[dburne]

It does Yurgon, many thanks for the tips!

I will try it a while with central position checked and see how I do.

[Pizzicato]

FWIW, I've just come back to the shark after a long time away. Didn't take me long to remember why it's my favourite ride in DCS. :D

 

I like to think I was pretty good with it, but it still took me a good few flights to get back to the point where my trim-management feels smooth and intuitive. In fact, I found it a little frustrating at first.

 

My technique is pretty much this (using a TM Warthog)with Central Trimmer Mode ON andRudder Centering OFF.

1. HOLD DOWN the TRIM button before you start moving the cyclic.
   
2. Point the helicopter in the desired direction.
   
3. Hold the stick steady for half a second or so. (Mostly so I know the aircraft is totally "settled")
   
4. RELEASE the TRIM button but KEEP the cyclic where it is.
   
5. Wait for half a second or so.
   
6. RELEASE the cyclic to centre.
   

Do this EVERY time, no matter how small a correction you're planning to perform. This gets me perfectly smooth and accurate flying.

 

 

The reason for the HOLD -> MOVE -> RELEASE method is so that you're not fighting the auto-stabilisation channels. They typically have ~20% control authority, which means you need to "push past them" to get the aircraft to respond. That always results in movements that look and feel pretty horrible.

 

 

 

Holding the TRIM button keeps the auto-stabilisation modes engaged, but effectively tells them "I know what I'm doing. Don't fight me on this!" :)

 

 

Yurgon's note about control "locking" is valid. This does occasionally happen to me, but it's never resulted in disaster. I tend to find the best solution is so quick movement of the cyclic around the centre point BEFORE holding the trim button. This allows you to "free" the stick without accidentally causing unwanted movement. You'll know it's freed up because you'll get a little bit of movement, but very minimal because of the auto-stabilisation modes.

 

 

Hope that helps.

Edited September 12, 2015 by Pizzicato

[98abaile]

The reason for the HOLD -> MOVE -> RELEASE method is so that you're not fighting the auto-stabilisation channels. They typically have ~20% control authority, which means you need to "push past them" to get the aircraft to respond. That always results in movements that look and feel pretty horrible.

 

Holding the TRIM button keeps the auto-stabilisation modes engaged, but effectively tells them "I know what I'm doing. Don't fight me on this!"

More specifically it's so that you're not fighting the autopilot, the stabilisation channels just smooth out your control inputs. Having the channel buttons lit up turns on stabilisation AND autopilot for that channel. When you press the trimmer button down, it overrides the auto pilot (except the altitude AP, that button is on the collective brake) but not the stabilisation. Releasing the trimmer tells the autopilot that the current reading for the active channels are to be maintained (e.g. release the trimmer with the pitch channel active and the nose pointed 5 degrees down, and the autopilot with try to maintain a 5 degree nose down pitch with 20% control authority).

 

Basically you hold the trimmer, point the aircraft in the direction you want and release the trimmer, the autopilot will then try and hold that heading/attitude/altitude. You would need to hold down the trimmer if you wanted to fly manually, otherwise you would be fighting the autopilot.

Alternatively, turn on the desired channels for stability and then turn on flight director, this gives you the stability channels but overrides all the autopilot functions; it also means the trimmer just works like a normal helicopter stick trimmer.

[dburne]

Great info, many thanks guys that is a big help - I really appreciate it!