Stop Complaining guys!!!

[Gooseneck]

Sometimes I am not sure you know what you are arguing about...

 

The helpers we are getting are probably more for helping with deficiencies in our plastic controllers than anything else...

 

:lol:

 

Yup. There's a force feedback-free zone on my g940, where the a/c is controllable before ffb kicks in. A 'wobbly' bit if you like. Also my rudder pedals have to be shoved left, right and left again before they'll actually centre, in all sims. Then I always have to reduce their sensitivity, or the a/c is almost uncontrollable.

 

I'm convinced that when the Spit is released, it'll be controllable completely within the 'deadzone' of my stick, before I even touch the DCS software's deadzone, saturation and curvature profiles in the DCS controller menus.

 

I read these arguments about the sensitivities of the real aircraft and think;

 

'Did Erich Hartmann have a Logitech 3D Pro or a Warthog Thrustmaster, or was he using a 360 gamepad?'

 

Funny stuff. :)

[Anatoli-Kagari9]

Yaw stability means NO corrections or NO control forces in the rudder at cruising speed.

You can read the attached "Bf-109 G10 report By Mark Hanna and Eric Brown",

page 3 say.

[/i][/color].

 

Otto, that's not even close the definition of stability, in aerodynamic terms... But, I know what you're trying to point out and, I am waiting for 1.5 before commenting any more on this subject, other than that I am really satisfied with the fixes / additions to the model we now have, and honestly think that the developers have given us the best evidence that they do listen to our claims.

 

Will it be perfect in 1.5 ? Probably not ( some say perfection is not a attainable ... ) but I strongly believe it'll be better than it is now.

[IIIJG52_Otto_]

Sometimes I am not sure you know what you are arguing about...

Otto, that's not even close the definition of stability, in aerodynamic terms... But, I know what you're trying to point out and,

 

Only the professional, or expert pilots can understand the great importance of trim control in an aircraft. The trim control is correlated with the weight & balance, stability and forces in controls.

If you have the trim control wrong, this ruining completely the aircraft behavior, increasing the forces in controls (stick & rudder pedals heavy), increase the aerodynamic drag (surfaces deflected unnecessarily) and decrease a lot the general performance.

Please read these two holy pages of the "weight & balance manual"of FAA.

http://issuu.com/diegoforero/docs/aicraft_weight_and_balance_handbook/15?e=0

 

If you are capable to understand these 2 pages, probably you can understand my point, and my worry with this stuff.

 

the developers have given us the best evidence that they do listen to our claims.

That is the right thing that they must doing.

If the developers not listen our claim, will mean that they choose waste money and ruin their business. One of basic law of quality standard ISO 9000 is the customer feedback.

Edited October 1, 2015 by III/JG52_Otto_+

[NineLine]

That is the right thing that they must doing.

If the developers not listen our claim, will mean that they choose waste money and ruin their business. One of basic law of quality standard ISO 9000 is the customer feedback.

 

ISO 9000 doesnt mean every customer is right, also as ED is a professional simulation company, making simulations for not only us consumers, but professional contracts, I would say they have earned the right to develop a simulation and use to have a little more faith in their abilities than you show in almost every post you make.

 

Yo-Yo listens to everything you have stated, but if you are 100% right, and he is 100% wrong, then maybe its time you start out and make your own module ;) You have to listen as well Otto... I havent seen that yet.

 

But once again, the quote you took of mine was pointing out that you are not comprehending what these new options might be for nothing else.

Edited October 1, 2015 by NineLine

[Anatoli-Kagari9]

If you are capable to understand these 2 pages, probably you can understand my point, and my worry with this stuff.

 

 

Otto, I'm an active pilot, since 1980.

 

I fly gliders, and I think I have a good understanding of the basics of flight :-)

[Ala13_ManOWar]

Only the professional, or expert pilots can understand the great importance of trim control in an aircraft.

Definitely!!! So not your case my friend as you show all of us here every time your mouth opens :smilewink:.

 

 

The trim control is correlated with the weight & balance, stability and forces in controls.

Nope mate, you don't understand it at all, trim has nothing to do with weight and balance nor aircraft stability. Trim only has to do with releasing the pilot from manual work. BUT, it depends on the aircraft, control balances and stick forces because some aircraft are so light it doesn't even matter if you trim or not, you just hold the stick here or there without trouble. You would now if you were a pilot :smilewink:. The only real problem with that is us using a cheap plastic joystick at home.

 

 

If you have the trim control wrong, this ruining completely the aircraft behavior, increasing the forces in controls (stick & rudder pedals heavy), increase the aerodynamic drag (surfaces deflected unnecessarily) and decrease a lot the general performance.

Negative mate. You are blatantly confusing the aircraft controls and behaviour with your own hardware performance, comfort, and behaviour at home. Buy a better/more comfortable joystick, look for a Joystick extension, whatever, but you are blaming ED and the module for your own fault.

 

[/url]

If you are capable to understand these 2 pages, probably you can understand my point, and my worry with this stuff.

If you were able to understand every time you say something like that you're just insulting many people around here... other players, ED itself and its work, etc. In first place you should be polite if you want people to take you serious.

 

Even more, you didn't even read your own provided link as it doesn't name trim at all in weight and balance subject... (of course it doesn't)

 

 

That is the right thing that they must doing.

Aaand again, it's not right just because it's you who says. You don't dictate ED's work or policy, you can't order like that anybody. You're being quite harsh and rude here.

 

 

If the developers not listen our claim, will mean that they choose waste money and ruin their business. One of basic law of quality standard ISO 9000 is the customer feedback.

More insulting and rudeness. I think Sithspawn right now is reaching kinda saint status dealing with you. Holy Sithspawn :worthy: .

 

 

Mate, really, I don't know how to say still being polite but you have a problem, a problem of yourself, and I don't think ED is here to fix your own problems. You don't even try to listen other people who try to help you, it's being a long discussion here about the subject and after all you where wrong since start. If something you achieved to prove ED was right with the module. Lets enjoy 1.5 when we have it and see ED's work with all the modules, also 109, and then we'll see what we have to comment.

 

S!

[Crumpp]

Here is the rudder stability curves for the Bf-109G series. Any questions on the data and what this means, I will be happy to help.

[Anatoli-Kagari9]

Here is the rudder stability curves for the Bf-109G series. Any questions on the data and what this means, I will be happy to help.

 

Thx Crumpp :-)

 

I confess German language is the major obstacle for me on those charts :-)

[Crumpp]

Under the conditions listed at the CG (21.2% MAC) and Horizontal stabilizer trim setting (.075 degrees nose up) listed, the rudder shows ~2 degrees of deflection required and the rudder input force was 5Kg to 37Kg depending on speed/altitude.

[Solty]

Here is the rudder stability curves for the Bf-109G series. Any questions on the data and what this means, I will be happy to help.

Those are not rudder curves. I checked it with my German friend. Word 'Hohenruderausshlag' can be misleading as google translate translates it as "high rudder", thats only because the word is written with 'o' instead of 'ö', which might have been hard to see due to very old copy of the document. So now with 'ö' (Höhenruderausschlag) means "elevator travel"... So that might have been the confusion...

[Crumpp]

Those are not rudder curves. I checked it with my German friend. Word 'Hohenruderausshlag' can be misleading as google translate translates it as "high rudder", thats only because the word is written with 'o' instead of 'ö', which might have been hard to see due to very old copy of the document. So now with 'ö' (Höhenruderausschlag) means "elevator travel"... So that might have been the confusion...

 

There are rudder curves there.

 

I posted both documents.

 

The rudder and the elevator is shown. I was nice enough to provide the relative stability and control curves for the type.

 

Look at the second page...that is your rudder on the Bf-109G....

 

All the graphs are labeled with the longitudinal trim information and CG position necessary to make the graphical information meaningful to the engineer.

 

:thumbup:

[Yo-Yo]

There are rudder curves there.

 

I posted both documents.

 

The rudder and the elevator is shown. I was nice enough to provide the relative stability and control curves for the type.

 

Look at the second page...that is your rudder on the Bf-109G....

 

All the graphs are labeled with the longitudinal trim information and CG position necessary to make the graphical information meaningful to the engineer.

 

:thumbup:

 

I have to say that the both drawings present elevator (Hochrudder) because of the form and drucken (push) and zichen (pull) forces... so I began to understand German a little :) working on the interview and German documents.

[MFG62 Joker]

:thumbup:

both charts are about Höhenruder (elevator)

 

Yo-yo: you is wrong!

It´s ziehen (not zichen) and drücken, but not really bad for not being Deutscher :smilewink:

[Ala13_ManOWar]

Back on topic, stop complaining guys!!!! Amazing feeling of the 109 now n 1.5, and trim tabs works quite fine :beer:.

 

S!

[Yo-Yo]

:thumbup:

both charts are about Höhenruder (elevator)

 

Yo-yo: you is wrong!

It´s ziehen (not zichen) and drücken, but not really bad for not being Deutscher :smilewink:

 

Thank you :) but the original was poorly written. And sometimes I have to guess the word meaning even without knowing it.

[Sporg]

Back on topic, stop complaining guys!!!! Amazing feeling of the 109 now n 1.5, and trim tabs works quite fine :beer:.

 

S!

 

Any recommendations of setting of trim tabs?

[Crumpp]

I have to say that the both drawings present elevator (Hochrudder) because of the form and drucken (push) and zichen (pull) forces...

 

This page is rudder position at the top and it makes sense that the rudder control forces are at the bottom.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=122039&d=1443711437

 

The top graph is clearly labeled "Rudder position at a fixed dynamic pressure"

 

I took as simply left and right based on the (+) and (-) standard notations after discussing it with an Austrian pilot/engineer at work. Neither of us could see the point of trying to relate rudder position to elevator forces as they are not coupled in any way. They are not looking for inertial roll coupling events in the FW-190, LOL.

 

Maybe this test is describing an inertial roll event?

 

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/fw190/fw190-0022-dive.html

 

I took it as aircraft experiences normal mach tuck with a pronounced yaw. This page seems to support that yawing moment developing at high mach numbers. This graphs proves this is a mach effect and not a q-limit.

 

He translated "höhensteuer-handkraft bei festem staudruck" as "Stick Forces at a fixed dynamic pressure".

 

That made sense looking at the other page which definitely relates stick forces to elevator angle. That is the elevator angle to elevator forces measurements of the Bf-109G series.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=122038&d=1443711437

 

 

 

You can see on the first page the bottom graph is clearly labeled "elevator position"

[Crumpp]

ruderausschlag = Rudder

 

 

Edited October 2, 2015 by Crumpp
added document

[Crumpp]

Unless the Germans discovered inertial roll coupling or suspected it about 5 years before it was known to the rest of the aviation world why would they try to correlate rudder angle to elevator forces?

Edited October 2, 2015 by Crumpp
This is a question meant for Yo-Yo...not just the air

[Ala13_ManOWar]

Any recommendations of setting of trim tabs?

Rudder +10 (right) is perfect, aileron -2 (left). But I've to further check ailerons.

 

Guys, stop discussion for a while and enjoy the 1.5 version :) .

 

S!

[Crumpp]

Yo-Yo says:

Thank you but the original was poorly written. And sometimes I have to guess the word meaning even without knowing it.

 

For being such good engineers, the German language leaves much to be desired sometimes.

 

We searched for months for a "waffengeber" on White 1. The same part with the same function has a completely different name on the Bf-109 series.

 

It is the solenoid switch that controls the weapon synchronization thru the propeller.

[gavagai]

No elevator trim tabs adjust?

 

+1

[Sporg]

Rudder +10 (right) is perfect, aileron -2 (left). But I've to further check ailerons.

 

Guys, stop discussion for a while and enjoy the 1.5 version :) .

 

S!

 

Thanks a lot. :)

 

Off to test. ;)

[Ala13_ManOWar]

Thanks a lot. :)

 

Off to test. ;)

Forgot to mention I use rudder pedals, just in case :smilewink:.

 

S!

[Solty]

@YoYo. Thank you for your confirmation.

Edited October 1, 2015 by Solty