So, tell me please....

[ZaltysZ]

this works with the DCS 109? how?

 

Probably not. Manufacturer describes it having 9 rotations, so its axis reports absolute position and not the turning rate. Basically you will need a turning rate reporting controller, if you want to trim current implementation of our K4 in not so mind hurting way.

[IIIJG52_Otto_]

At no point do we see the persons arm/elbow needing to go outside the cockpit to operate the wheel, the canopy is irrelevant, so is being on the ground irrelevant, the aircraft does not change shape or anything once airborne and trim wheels do not stiffen with aerodynamic loads like controls do.

 

What happens in DCS? is just plain weird, you can assign the trim (and flap) wheels to an axis on the controller but they function as if operated by a switch (what is the point of that?)

what this means is that when you turn the assigned rotary axis on your controller the wheel begins to move in the corresponding direction but it will not stop turning until you return your axis input to the centre (with 20 years of real world flying and using rotary trim wheels I can tell you this is a difficult trick get accustomed to) so you end up having to assign it to buttons instead, which flies in the face of ultra realistic/historical simulation and wastes buttons on your HOTAS that could better serve the myriad of other functions that could be usefull, all you have to do is allow the functions to work exactly the same as the P-51 trims with a corresponding and humanly realistic speed of rotation and bob's your uncle.

 

I agree with bongodriver;, .. The actual (ver 1.5 too) trim handwheel model in our Bf-109K4 is not the best way. It´s should work like the P-51 trim axis.

This model with up and down keys is only valid for Fw-190 D9 which have electric control switch for trim in the real aircraft.

[NineLine]

Now we just need someone to submit a real thread about this with the problem they are seeing instead of this mish mash of white noise... I cant pick out everything from it, it works fine for me, so if someone wants to submit a bug in the bug section, go for it.

[bongodriver]

Now we just need someone to submit a real thread about this with the problem they are seeing instead of this mish mash of white noise... I cant pick out everything from it, it works fine for me, so if someone wants to submit a bug in the bug section, go for it.

 

The only problem is it's not a bug, just a bad design decision.

 

Theres already a thread in the bug section from late 2014

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=135556

Edited October 12, 2015 by bongodriver

[Crumpp]

The 109 trim wheel is just a trim wheel exactly like the p-51's, they both take x amount of time to manually crank through their range, the 109 wheel should work exactly the same way the P-51 wheel does, currently trying to use the weird trim on the 109 in the oculus it is massively distracting as you can often find yourself with a trim wheel constantly turning one way or the other if you don't have the axis re-centered and you just cant get precise trim.

 

Correct

[klem]

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=2516567#post2516567

 

Bumped.

 

The only problem is it's not a bug, just a bad design decision.

 

Theres already a thread in the bug section from late 2014

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=135556

[NineLine]

The only problem is it's not a bug, just a bad design decision.

 

Theres already a thread in the bug section from late 2014

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=135556

 

 

Thanks for clarifying, if its not a bug, I wont waste anymore time on it...

[bongodriver]

Thanks for clarifying, if its not a bug, I wont waste anymore time on it...

 

Umm... ok :thumbup:

 

Hopefully someone will look in to putting it right and we can all enjoy the sim the way we like it.

[JG13]

Thanks for clarifying, if its not a bug, I wont waste anymore time on it...

 

This is something the cockpit builders would disagree on, I have a saitek trim wheel and its sitting useless with this module, please just pass the word on that it needs to work properly, thanks

[jester_]

This is something the cockpit builders would disagree on, I have a saitek trim wheel and its sitting useless with this module, please just pass the word on that it needs to work properly, thanks

 

I can understand the frustration, but I have to say, I think there are other issues that take priority over that. At least the trim works.

 

The trim wheel should be able to be bound to a wheel axis and work appropriately. But until the brakes are fixed, we can change our gun ammunition, and I can replace my MW-50 tank with fuel instead of methanol water, I don't think we should lose any sleep over it.

[Kurfürst]

I have no problem of pressing V and F respectively to simulate operating the flaps and that one of my hand is occupied in doing so, as in real life. I understand that for some maximum reality / cocpit builder users of the module would enjoy a different implementation, but IMO we should put first things first - lets have all the ordnance (bombs, cluster bombs, rockets and gunpods) and any possible FM bugs sorted out first, and prefarably multiple fuel choices (and not only for the K) which are long awaited, and then progress towards polishing control features.

[bongodriver]

first things first is still a subjective view, IMO adding weapons is secondary to realism of flight and control features.

[Solty]

first things first is still a subjective view, IMO adding weapons is secondary to realism of flight and control features.

But its only your subjective view that what is modeled now is not "realistic" :)

[IIIJG52_Otto_]

first things first is still a subjective view, IMO adding weapons is secondary to realism of flight and control features.

 

I agree again with Bongodriver in that, Flight Controls is a basic thing.

but, Many others aircraft devices are important in a fighter when you go to fight against others enemies planes.

That is the main difference with MS Flight Simulator, weapons, combat flaps, slats etc. and the best performance is needed for combat. Not only for take-off and landing.

[bongodriver]

But its only your subjective view that what is modeled now is not "realistic" :)

 

In this case no it's not subjective at all, the real 109 trim is a wheel, it cannot be used with our physical hardware in the same manner, it's as simple as that, it is not realistic, of course everything happening on our computer monitors is in true DCS fashion very accurate and realistic but the implementation of how we interface in this case is not.

[Ala13_ManOWar]

In this case no it's not subjective at all

It is mate, if you can't tell that... I don't like either the way the axis is modelled, but it's a ED choice the way they see the problem. Anyway I use another option available and it's fine (the hat), indeed way better than if I had a trim wheel. The way you see things the axis control shouldn't be available at all if we don't have a specific hardware resembling closely the real thing.

 

Of course it could be made like a delayed axis, it would be fine also IMO, but probably because the real thing behaviour and handling characteristics people (and you know who I mean) will complain about how slow it moves. I'm pretty sure about that, you can bet.

 

S!

[bongodriver]

It is mate, if you can't tell that... I don't like either the way the axis is modelled, but it's a ED choice the way they see the problem. Anyway I use another option available and it's fine (the hat), indeed way better than if I had a trim wheel. The way you see things the axis control shouldn't be available at all if we don't have a specific hardware resembling closely the real thing.

 

Of course it could be made like a delayed axis, it would be fine also IMO, but probably because the real thing behaviour and handling characteristics people (and you know who I mean) will complain about how slow it moves. I'm pretty sure about that, you can bet.

 

S!

 

A problem that doesn't exist, it certainly doesn't exist for the P-51, it's quite baffling really.

 

The way I see things is not quite what you think, I just think something as common to aircraft such as a trim should work in a logical fashion through our hardware, I'm all for compromise here and there with much of the controls and clickable pits go along way to making life make sense again for me, particularly as I now fly pretty much exclusively in VR I'd like to set up my controls in a fashion that suits me.

[Ala13_ManOWar]

Indeed a compromise would be those axis as in cockpit clickable so you will last quite long as the real thing to handle and would be also quite realistic. But do you think people won't complain about that also?

 

S!

[bongodriver]

Indeed a compromise would be those axis as in cockpit clickable so you will last quite long as the real thing to handle and would be also quite realistic. But do you think people won't complain about that also?

 

S!

 

I don't know, maybe, but that's not what I want it to be anyway, I just want the 109 trim wheel to work like the p-51 trim wheel with a realistic rate of operation.

[Solty]

I don't know, maybe, but that's not what I want it to be anyway, I just want the 109 trim wheel to work like the p-51 trim wheel with a realistic rate of operation.

Listen, to me it is made like that because they want to show that the 109's pilot had to leave the stick for a good while to get that thing cranking and and it takes time to set it into the right possiton. IRL when you want to trim/drop flaps you need one of your hands for a while moving the wheel. Unlike in the P-51 which seems to be, way easier and a few of motions is needed. Maybe thats just my perception.

 

 

Just what I feel.

Edited October 13, 2015 by Solty

[bongodriver]

Listen, to me it is made like that because they want to show that the 109's pilot had to leave the stick for a good while to get that thing cranking and and it takes time to set it into the right possiton. IRL when you want to trim/drop flaps you need one of your hands for a while moving the wheel. Unlike in the P-51 which seems to be, way easier and a few of motions is needed. Maybe thats just my perception.

 

 

 

How are you not getting what is being asked for? I just want to use the trim with a rotary control, just like the real thing, I don't care how long it takes to make the turns, it's not the issue, they can make it take 1000 years for all I care, Please someone tell me what the mysterious 'advantage' is to allow this to happen.

 

You think a 109 pilot has to let go of the joystick to operate trim?

[Yo-Yo]

It is mate, if you can't tell that... I don't like either the way the axis is modelled, but it's a ED choice the way they see the problem. Anyway I use another option available and it's fine (the hat), indeed way better than if I had a trim wheel. The way you see things the axis control shouldn't be available at all if we don't have a specific hardware resembling closely the real thing.

 

Of course it could be made like a delayed axis, it would be fine also IMO, but probably because the real thing behaviour and handling characteristics people (and you know who I mean) will complain about how slow it moves. I'm pretty sure about that, you can bet.

 

S!

 

We already have trimmers axes for P-51, and they are limited in rotation speed. I use the axes. But the main problem is that the most of game controllers have simple 90-270 degree pots that can not give required accuracy. If you control the trimmer with on-off control or even on-off with controlled speed you can achieve this accuracy.

I mean that Mustang-like control gives preferences for those who can use multy-revolution pots.

[Solty]

How are you not getting what is being asked for? I just want to use the trim with a rotary control, just like the real thing, I don't care how long it takes to make the turns, it's not the issue, they can make it take 1000 years for all I care, Please someone tell me what the mysterious 'advantage' is to allow this to happen.

 

You think a 109 pilot has to let go of the joystick to operate trim?

Because you will just push it once 'wziium' and it will trim itself for a minute while you will be maneuvering and operating throttle at the same time. Unless that throttle wheel simulates rotary control so well that you will be cranking it 1:1 with the real thing.

[Pman]

How are you not getting what is being asked for? I just want to use the trim with a rotary control, just like the real thing, I don't care how long it takes to make the turns, it's not the issue, they can make it take 1000 years for all I care, Please someone tell me what the mysterious 'advantage' is to allow this to happen.

 

You think a 109 pilot has to let go of the joystick to operate trim?

 

Having it on a rotary would be good imo as a pilot. Even if you had to do 4-5 complete revolutions it would be closer to the real mechanic ? but I think that would be preferable to people who use Rift alot or have home build cockpits.....oh I wish....

 

Pman

[bongodriver]

Because you will just push it once 'wziium' and it will trim itself for a minute while you will be maneuvering and operating throttle at the same time. Unless that throttle wheel simulates rotary control so well that you will be cranking it 1:1 with the real thing.

 

That is not how you trim aircraft, you seem to have even understood that yourself, if you start manoeuvring the aircraft around while trimming then what is the point of trimming?

 

a 109 pilot could interrupt his trimming at any time he wished if he felt the need to reach for another cockpit function, so it would just take a little longer, so why not make the trim move slightly slower than in real life?

seriously, this notion that 109's will gain significant advantage by this is just daft.