A message to devs.

[aimmaverick]

The patch 1.12a has made missiles and bombs literaly useless. I would like to point out especially cluster bombs which are broken, useless whatever you like. I droped them (CBUs, RBKs..) on targets like trucks, APCs and wtf??? They just dont get destroyed, as simple as that. They require a direct hit. Its like attacking a bunker not a thin skinned vehicle! OMG! This worked completely well in 1.11 for example but is broken now. Now I would like to know if this sliped undetected into a game as a bug, or it was deliberately moddeled that way? Because its a complete bullshit, A-G practically impossible, A-A impossible, frustrating with broken air-air missiles. Whats left? Just flying around, enjoying scenery or what? MG what have you done with this game devs? Please respond to this it is the very important issue, I dont want the thread to dissapear just like that. :(

[chrno120]

I think you have to be at least 2000 meters below your air target for your a/a missiles to hit. It's now look-up shoot-up in 1.12a, that's the way it's air-to-air missiles are modeled in this patch now..

Although I'm still not convinced so I'm still using basic 1.1

[brewber19]

The patch 1.12a has made missiles and bombs literaly useless. I would like to point out especially cluster bombs which are broken, useless whatever you like. I droped them (CBUs, RBKs..) on targets like trucks, APCs and wtf??? They just dont get destroyed, as simple as that. They require a direct hit. Its like attacking a bunker not a thin skinned vehicle! OMG! This worked completely well in 1.11 for example but is broken now. Now I would like to know if this sliped undetected into a game as a bug, or it was deliberately moddeled that way? Because its a complete bullshit, A-G practically impossible, A-A impossible, frustrating with broken air-air missiles. Whats left? Just flying around, enjoying scenery or what? MG what have you done with this game devs? Please respond to this it is the very important issue, I dont want the thread to dissapear just like that. :(

 

Did you use CBUs OR RBKs? Last night I attacked an "MSB" (75 vehicles) with 6xRBK250 and a rack of Vikr...I scored 52 kills...about 10 kills per RBK dropped.

 

Summary: They ain't porked for me....RBKs were dropped in combinations of anywhere from 2000m - 300m altitude, speeds of 400kph - 700kph, and angle of "dive" anywhere between 20metres/second to 40metres/second.

 

Do you have tracks of this "bug"?

 

Try a test.....put 10 M818 trucks (soft) on a road, stationary and in a straight line....now practise dropping clusters on them....if you're run in is good, you will only need 2 RBK250s (or CBUs I guess) to wipe out all 10 vehicles....drop your bombs as singletons...not in pairs!

 

Good luck, hope you get the prob solved, as I think this is either "user error" (edit: usually is for me...*sigh*) OR....your LO install is pooched and you should re-install just in case.

 

EDIT: Just remembered, I rarely fly the A-10 but...I do recall when dropping clusters that the fall line of your bomb needs to be running right through your target convoy....then your CBU will be really effective...if its just a touch off, effectiveness is much reduced. The RBKs seeem (to me) to be less sensitive to this). As I said, I very rarely fly anything other than Su25/25T/27...so might be worth a few tests.

[504 Wolverine]

A2G is 90% of my time spent in FC. I use the KMGU pods, RBK's (250-500), Mk-20's and CBU-97's and no complaints here. Same with bombs, Mk-82/4 and FAB series and they all work ok here.

 

Perhaps your install is corupt and a reinstall is needed.

[Weta43]

RBK's... drop them on everything - all the time. Wonderful things....

[dynamocl]

You use CBU-97s online???? I thought 504 didnt advocate the use of LOPE or its likes? :)

 

OMG ROXOR WTF... are you sure you are delivering the units correctly? DO you see the correct explosion types on impact, flying too low for release? CBUs worked ok on mine.

[brewber19]

You use CBU-97s online???? I thought 504 didnt advocate the use of LOPE or its likes? :)

 

OMG ROXOR WTF... are you sure you are delivering the units correctly? DO you see the correct explosion types on impact, flying too low for release? CBUs worked ok on mine.

 

Hi Dynamo...how's it going? Been a while since I seen you on our server (hope your the same Dynamo...otherwise :blush:).

 

I suspect (and Im sure he'll respond soon) Wolverine referred to CBU-97s when offline....or (whatever your version of our) RBKs online. I assume the CBU-97s are a bigger version of smaller cluster bombs you normally carry?

[dynamocl]

CBU97s have special magical hockey puck devices in them, they can target heat sources on the way down - good for anti tank, a bit over kill for soft targets.

 

Yes, I am the same player you flew with a while back. The reason I am not flying (and getting very irritated about it) is that my graphics card has broke, so I have sent it back to repair (only 6 months old, it has 3 year warranty). Currently on week 5 with no graphics card (hence no flying). They estimate it could take 8 weeks to reapair!!!!! As you can imagine, its frustrating not being able to get in the air. (I am using a crappy ancient MX4000 card I borrowed from work and get 1fps in lockon)

 

(actually I hope they can't repair it, so I get my money back, the 6800GS is not as flash as it was when I got it last year).

[504 Wolverine]

The 504th server now uses the Shepski realism mod which includes the CBU-97 for the A-10.

 

The link in my sig shows what is allowed. What is not allowed is stuff like Su-33s with R-77s (or extra ETs), Su-27s with R-33s, Migs with mica, F-15s with AIM-54..... Well you get my drift

[S77th-konkussion]

Are you ever going to post anything that you can back up? Seriously man- you need practice or something- and lots of it. Face it- you missed.

 

I have a single session in the 504's server with 95 A2G kills. The clusters work FINE. If anything- the clusters work a lot BETTER than the singles as the blast radius of singles like the MK 84 is.. not too good. They have worked on them some- you used to be able to drop a bridge with a Mk 20, and now it's much harder to do that- not what they are made for.

 

I have made at least 200 A2A kills since 1.12a came out- with every type of legit missile that the flyables can carry. Other than the over simplified missile flight physics- which is about to be enhanced with WAFM- I see NOTHING to back up what your saying (this time) nor have you proven anything else that you come on here losing your mind about.

[dynamocl]

Good to know, was getting a little bored just using the 20Ds. When I get back up and running, I will pay your sig link a quick visit.

 

I just did a quick search, people were trying to get a new paint job for the old weapons (post 1.2). Did 1.2 sort this out, or is it worth looking for custom paint jobs for the weapons?

[3Sqn_Sven]

Are you ever going to post anything that you can back up? Seriously man- you need practice or something- and lots of it. Face it- you missed.

 

I have a single session in the 504's server with 95 A2G kills. The clusters work FINE. If anything- the clusters work a lot BETTER than the singles as the blast radius of singles like the MK 84 is.. not too good. They have worked on them some- you used to be able to drop a bridge with a Mk 20, and now it's much harder to do that- not what they are made for.

 

I have made at least 200 A2A kills since 1.12a came out- with every type of legit missile that the flyables can carry. Other than the over simplified missile flight physics- which is about to be enhanced with WAFM- I see NOTHING to back up what your saying (this time) nor have you proven anything else that you come on here losing your mind about.

 

 

Agreed.

 

So many people complain about broken missiles, in particular the F-15 and Aim120's...yeah they don't work as well as IRL however thats just for playability. You need to get taught how to use the weapons correctly. 169th_Gideon and I went up in F15's in the VVS504 server yesterday against a 4 ship flight of SU27/33 yesterday and shot ALL down at once using Aim120 in the one single engagement, firing from 25miles at 40000ft down to the SU's at 20-25000ft. Using F-Pole and "various" 2 ship tactics we were able to trash all incomming shots and take out twice our number.

 

There wasn't much wrong with LOMAC in 1.02 and there isn't much wrong with it now, you just need to adapt a little every now and then.

[Pilotasso]

Agreed.

So many people complain about broken missiles, in particular the F-15 and Aim120's...yeah they don't work as well as IRL however thats just for playability.

 

HMMM...no. :lookaround:

 

Several of the beta testers have reported that the SARH and ARH seeker logic is broken, specialy the ARH wich are way too sensitive to chaff and ground clutter. If you fly low enough their PK is a BIG FAT 0%.

 

Even when in 1.1 and previous versions with SARH and ARH ignoring chaff (completely) they were still quite dodgeable, by manuever or by energy play.

So I guess fixing the chaff and clutter sensitivity wont bring any new gameplay issues.

[GGTharos]

More precicely ... the radar guided missiles are sensitive to chaff against a *head on* target. This, as far as we could tell, should not be the case.

 

THese missiles should be sensitive to chaff only against targets that are near the notch (against the missile, not the parent aircraft) and when chaff is between missile and aircraft (aircraft radar return drowned out in chaff reflection)

 

WAFM will fix any kinematic issues.

[Pilotasso]

WAFM will fix any kinematic issues.

 

..and before everybody starts jumping :bounce:, WAFM is aimed at for AA missiles too, but not promised (I want it BADLY though :D )

[GGTharos]

WAFM is for -all- weapons, not just AA.

 

I'm hoping that CEP will be modelled properly, so that bombing altitude makes a difference.

[Pilotasso]

I meant in 1.2 BS

[3Sqn_Sven]

HMMM...no. :lookaround:

 

Several of the beta testers have reported that the SARH and ARH seeker logic is broken, specialy the ARH wich are way too sensitive to chaff and ground clutter. If you fly low enough their PK is a BIG FAT 0%.

 

Even when in 1.1 and previous versions with SARH and ARH ignoring chaff (completely) they were still quite dodgeable, by manuever or by energy play.

So I guess fixing the chaff and clutter sensitivity wont bring any new gameplay issues.

 

 

 

I was a beta tester for 1.12 and 1.12a (have pulled out of BS) and my statements stand.

[dynamocl]

WAFM is for -all- weapons, not just AA.

 

I'm hoping that CEP will be modelled properly, so that bombing altitude makes a difference.

 

Circular Area of Probability? I am soley a ground pounder, and I would very much enjoy watching where the bombs land in relation to the aim point, and then having to "aim off" to get bombs on target due to wind shear etc. I assume this is what you speak of?

[bflagg]

WAFM is for -all- weapons, not just AA.

 

I'm hoping that CEP will be modelled properly, so that bombing altitude makes a difference.

 

 

Hey GG...

WAFM.... I thought this wasn't going to happen....

 

something changed?

[GGTharos]

Circular Area of Probability? I am soley a ground pounder, and I would very much enjoy watching where the bombs land in relation to the aim point, and then having to "aim off" to get bombs on target due to wind shear etc. I assume this is what you speak of?

 

There are more factors that that, in general you have an increasing CEP (Circular Error Probability) as you fly higher, due to bomb spin, unevenly distributed weight within the bomb, etc .... environmental factors like what you've mentioned just add to it, as does the WCS (eg. F-15E has better CEP than A-10A dropping weapons from the same altitude)

 

For example, -if- I recall correctly, the CEP for an A-10 dropping Mk82's from 15000' is about 1000'.

[GGTharos]

Hey GG...

WAFM.... I thought this wasn't going to happen....

 

something changed?

 

WAFM is happening, just not in BS (as you recall, we were told there was no time for it). It most certainly has -not- been dropped, just postponed.

[Pilotasso]

Several of the beta testers have reported that the SARH and ARH seeker logic is broken, specialy the ARH wich are way too sensitive to chaff and ground clutter. If you fly low enough their PK is a BIG FAT 0%.

 

Even when in 1.1 and previous versions with SARH and ARH ignoring chaff (completely) they were still quite dodgeable, by manuever or by energy play.

So I guess fixing the chaff and clutter sensitivity wont bring any new gameplay issues.

 

I was a beta tester for 1.12 and 1.12a (have pulled out of BS) and my statements stand.

 

LOL, now you have put me in the difficult position as to who's analysis should I consider more acurate, in the risk of apearing not very polite to someone. :D

As far as I can tell I believe you have became an airforce student yourself (I have one in my family as well), but you dont play enough against human oponents online with LOMAC to see how incredibly they spoof missiles off when they should been obviously be dead or at least dignify his oponents by trying to evade when shot at.

 

I dont think is the fact that this is not WAFM because IMHO the flaws are too obvious and can be simly adjusted just to avoid SCI-fi tactics, and get some RL tactics into play even if the missiles do not match the rwal ones exactly, but just good enough to achieve this gameplay efect.

[GGTharos]

I think Sven is pointing out that the quality of missiles is similar for both sides.

 

I'm just saying that guidance has unrealistic flaws, which is a different statement. :)

[3Sqn_Sven]

Mmmm, well I get online about once a week for a few hours and my experience has been that I've never been able to motor along just dropping chaff and not evading and avoid 120's or anything else, I get smashed all the time by dudes in the 15. On the flip side I frequently smash Su's and Mig's with the 120, just 2 days ago I was up with Gideon and we killed 4 at once using shots at 25 and 15 miles. I think they were deadlier in 1.02 and I prefered the way things worked back then compared to what we have now. As for how it compares to the real deal, no one in this community knows how they really work, except for the few guys are who actually work on/use the 120 and can't talk about it.

 

I guess in the end it comes down to an opinion of how deadly they should be in game...for playability they need to be degraded but the question is how much. I suppose that you would say they've been degraded too much...I'd agree with that. However, I would disagree that they are useless, as I have certainly been on both ends of the stick online, probably for 4 hours a week over the last year. My main point, and I believe Koncussion's point, is that you get a lot of people complaining that the 15 and the 120's combo is useless. I can guaruntee that anyone who flies against a 169th member will begrudgingly be proved wrong.