Help killing and spotting infantry

[jasonstory44]

Hi guys, any suggestions on this? Specifically I've been flying the Overhead mission and I find the ground troops nearly impossible to kill. I get the JTAC coordinates, see a cluster of 4 men in town....Drop a CBU 87 and maybe one dies. I end up doing innumerable runs into the area firing HEI rounds and rockets haphazardly into the area as the guys are impossible to see on run in.

 

And then when there are troops in the forest, forget it. I would have thought dropping a cluster bomb into the area the JTAC calls in would do the trick but I never seem to succeed. Any guidance is greatly appreciated.

[Cik]

are you using WHOT mode on the TGP? i find that depending on the type of terrain they aren't too bad to see. the real trick is using weapons that are effective against them, for whatever reason rockets are really pretty bad, the blast radius is extremely small even for the HE ones. i would use mk82 derivatives or HEI (if you have a good line on them) in particular if you want to fly overwatch i'd suggest getting down their line (as in, fly so you can drop bombs in a straight line down their rank) and then drop in a few mk82, you can also release several GBU-38 on each soldier and it should kill them.

 

the real trick though is guessing where the TGP diamond is, as for whatever reason it's occluded by the bomb pipper. you have to move the pipper over the target and guess pretty well, then release in a good parameter to hit the target.

 

note: it's easier to hit them if they're firing or being fired upon, as the tracers can provide good clues as to where to drop. you can also boresight the TGP and then put the diamond over them, making it much easier to find them.

 

tl;dr it's difficult esp. because each infantry 'unit' is just one guy instead of say, a platoon but doable. stick to mk82 or derivatives like the gbu-12/38, or HEI cannon ammo. maybe try getting some of your troops in contact so you can figure out where they are if you are having trouble finding them. make sure you are making passes 'down the line' so that misses may generate hits on targets you weren't firing at.

 

you might want to avoid taking more than a single pylon of rockets, they simply aren't very good due to very ineffective blast radius and high deviation unless shooting at very close range.

 

oh and do note that when the JTAC sends data it's perfectly accurate(?) as opposed to the gridsquare which can 'miss' the target by quite a ways, a problem when hunting for one guy standing in a field. try hooking and setting your SPI to that, then use china hat forward long to slave all sensors to it. should help.

[jasonstory44]

all great suggestions...I thought the CBU would be a good choice...in fact its what the JTAC calls for but they seem to suck

[Blooze]

You can change the height of fall (HOF) and rpm settings for the CBU87 and you may want to create a simple test mission to see what works best. Wind speed is also a factor that needs to be considered.

[Aginor]

A CBU against 4 infantry guys... To me that's a bit of an overkill. If there is no big risk of MANPADS I'd use the gun on those.

 

If you want to use a bomb on those guys I'd drop a pair of Mk82s if you are halfway precise with those. In real life that would be pretty effective, and once the splash damage in DCSW gets improved (maybe it already is in 1.5, I haven't tried yet) you will be able to kill them all by dropping those two bombs in a 200 feet circle around them, which should be doable from 10,000ft of altitude.

 

For CBU87s a HOF of 700 and 1000 RPM should do the job ( IIRC, sorry if that is the wrong setting).

 

Spotting them IS tricky. Just like in real life you have to have either a good JTAC in the area describing to you where they are, or you have to get pretty close.

[ricktoberfest]

You can also change whether the occlusion happens with the tgp designator. It's in the hud options (where you change many hud options)

 

 

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[Pickle]

You'd think, Aginor, but that would be true with airburst fuzing, not contact fuzing. From A-10s Over Kosovo: " A 500 lb bomb with a contact fuse that hits just one meter outside the target’s revetment is good only for making a lot of noise. " -Lt. Col. Chris "Kimos" Haave. I concur on using guns. If you need to, pack a pod of WP marker rounds to assist in lining up a shot.

[Cik]

all great suggestions...I thought the CBU would be a good choice...in fact its what the JTAC calls for but they seem to suck

 

they're actually pretty good, the default RPM and HOF settings are very bad though, all they seem to do is scatter a bunch of ineffective bomblets over half a gridsquare. you can try HOF ~1500 and rpm 500-1000, that might kill the first few infantry in overwatch; the lower the HOF and RPM, the tighter the group; i find HOF 900 and RPM 500 delivers a very dense pattern of instant death to anything that isn't an MBT.

[WildBillKelsoe]

just use a nice GBU-12... one pass, multi-kill bonus. You should slave HUD to SPI then shift it to be the SOI. This will give you a nice square on HUD during roll out. The rest is to zoom all the way in on final, and adjust.

 

You can also set an F10 trigger to smoke markers. This simplifies the lot.

[Aginor]

You'd think, Aginor, but that would be true with airburst fuzing, not contact fuzing. From A-10s Over Kosovo: " A 500 lb bomb with a contact fuse that hits just one meter outside the target’s revetment is good only for making a lot of noise. " -Lt. Col. Chris "Kimos" Haave. I concur on using guns. If you need to, pack a pod of WP marker rounds to assist in lining up a shot.

 

Well, he didn't say anything about revetments. In open areas those things have a 100% fragment hit radius against infantry of 250m or so.

Also IIRC (I read that book years ago) that quote refers to tanks, buildings or something like that, not infantry. Even behind a revetment those guys would not be able to do any combat for quite some time. The revetment only helps a bit, since humans are pretty fragile when they are that close to a explosion of that kind.

But I agree: airburst fusing would be the best option with dumb bombs. A pity we don't have that.

 

A GBU of any kind is a waste of tax payer's money if those guys aren't the leaders of the whole enemy operation.

[jasonstory44]

Thanks for all the input guys. I did lower HOF to 1200 but maybe I should lower it to tighten up the blast. I've never played with RPM so maybe I'll give that a go. I also suspect maybe I wasn't accounting enough for wind. Maybe that with the high HOF was blowing the bomblets way off the mark. I agree it seems like overkill for just 4 infantry men. I was just following JTAC request which I know I can ignore if need be. In the end I had to take them out with guns.

[Deezle]

Use a normal 500lb bomb, GBU-38/12/MK-82, pick your poison.

 

The AI wingmen are good for tasks like this as well.

[Hellride]

This is EXACTLY the mission I"ve been killing myself trying to complete with a decent score.

 

The HOF/Spin change really does help, at least with the first group as the next group is a bit further apart.

 

I do have another question though (not to jack the thread), after finally finding these guys, my TGP sometimes loses the SPI and goes all wonky (dark, flickers, doesn't respond to boresight). Sometimes I just have to click it to STBY and back again, but it never regains the SPI. I noticed on my last run through the TAD was hooking passively other items as I circled to survey the area or to set up my attack heading. Then it would change that hook to the SPI and thus TGP is not on target anymore. Is this a bug? I'm on 1.5 and it is very frustrating. Any thoughts on what I may be doing wrong? Happening to anyone else?

 

Thanks - and "hello!" this being my first post and all...

[Aginor]

Welcome to the forums, Hellride! :)

I am not sure, it could be a bug with the 1.5 version. IIRC some people reported problems with the TGP.

 

The SPI drifting a bit is normal, especially when it went into gimbal limits before.

[Hellride]

Thanks! ...I reverted back to 1.2 and the TGP was far more stable on the SPI - only lost it once but seemed more like drift. Still wasn't able to get the whole convoy through the trees and get a decent score, but that was due to my piloting skills:joystick: and not SPI's going wayward.

[jasonstory44]

Anyone else having trouble getting your wingman to attack anyone? I give the order, he says roger and then never attacks. I run out of weapons on this mission and my wingman ends with a full payload (if he doesn't get taken out first).

[WildBillKelsoe]

A GBU of any kind is a waste of tax payer's money if those guys aren't the leaders of the whole enemy operation.

 

The pilot has discretion to use any weapons on board as he sees fit, regardless of who's paying the tag, so long that it does the job, doesn't jeopardize or threaten allied elements or civilian elements. That is the cool thing about pilots. When they land, no one will ask them why did you use a GBU-12 over a bunch of infantry when you could've dropped a huge firecracker that drifts too much and has a higher chance of killing unintended targets.

 

I know what your counterpoint will be (which is if the skeets don't detect a heat signature, they will disarm). To that, I say again, pilot discretion.

[Hellride]

Anyone else having trouble getting your wingman to attack anyone? I give the order, he says roger and then never attacks. I run out of weapons on this mission and my wingman ends with a full payload (if he doesn't get taken out first).

 

Yes. This was happening all the time for me too. He won't attack anything but does respond roger, then nothing, then rejoin, then RTB (but he rejoins). Really annoying. But, I do believe it's because he's spotted the AAA threats in the area. If you assign those targets, he will attack them. One time though he almost went down and actually did RTB tho...

[Toolboy77]

Yes. This was happening all the time for me too. He won't attack anything but does respond roger, then nothing, then rejoin, then RTB (but he rejoins). Really annoying. But, I do believe it's because he's spotted the AAA threats in the area. If you assign those targets, he will attack them. One time though he almost went down and actually did RTB tho...

This is interesting!

I'll have to try this tonight...I always thought it was just the ai being a bone head.

When it was feasible, I would RTB, rearm, and head out again (that is in itself great fun)!

[Aginor]

The pilot has discretion to use any weapons on board as he sees fit, regardless of who's paying the tag, so long that it does the job, doesn't jeopardize or threaten allied elements or civilian elements. That is the cool thing about pilots. When they land, no one will ask them why did you use a GBU-12 over a bunch of infantry when you could've dropped a huge firecracker that drifts too much and has a higher chance of killing unintended targets.

 

I know what your counterpoint will be (which is if the skeets don't detect a heat signature, they will disarm). To that, I say again, pilot discretion.

 

In fact I agree with you. If the mission demands it, you should use whatever you have with you. Using a CBU in a city should be not the first choice though, for the reasons you mentioned. I just think that in many cases the GBU-12 doesn't do the job much better than a Mk-82 or a gun run, which is why I think the GBU-12 might be wasted.

[WildBillKelsoe]

In fact I agree with you. If the mission demands it, you should use whatever you have with you. Using a CBU in a city should be not the first choice though, for the reasons you mentioned. I just think that in many cases the GBU-12 doesn't do the job much better than a Mk-82 or a gun run, which is why I think the GBU-12 might be wasted.

There are certain restrictions like you say. Weather, Civies, target type, threats, timing, and weapon after effects. In oaf book, they were not allowed to walk into cities dropping bombs. And had to be damn sure that they are not killing dummy tanks or strela cardboards. I do agree 12 effects are underpowered, but in a way, its better for OP who wants to get on with it.

 

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