This is what the F-22 can do

[tflash]

It's the brain of the pilot that is most at risk of getting fried. It's not only the Aesa radar, but the sensor fusion that will give such a tremendous informatiion flow in the cockpit that situational awareness will be extremely enhanced, possibly to the level of "overloading" the human pilot.

 

The whole idea, copied from the F-117's philosophy, is to display the threat emmitors' range and location so that you can actually fly around the enemy's defenses (both air and ground) without being detected.

 

This all being done at supercruise speeds will give a totally new pace to warfare. You'll need the best of the best to exploit this to the full, or they will have a nervous breakdown even before any enemy defenses can even engage them.

[Crusty]

HMM...A full power beam of energy..

wouldnt doing that would light yourself up like july 4th..stealth?

 

the electro-magnetic spectrum is very broad and aircraft/engines spew stuff out all over it, not just the bit f22 has covered

 

My little brain says(just an opinion..ok) 5 years max before stealth as it is on the raptor is

totaly negated..lotta money to be at the top for 5 years

[GGTharos]

It's the brain of the pilot that is most at risk of getting fried. It's not only the Aesa radar, but the sensor fusion that will give such a tremendous informatiion flow in the cockpit that situational awareness will be extremely enhanced, possibly to the level of "overloading" the human pilot.

 

Nope. The information is -very- well organized for the pilot to avoid -just- that.

[GGTharos]

HMM...A full power beam of energy..

wouldnt doing that would light yourself up like july 4th..stealth?

 

the electro-magnetic spectrum is very broad and aircraft/engines spew stuff out all over it, not just the bit f22 has covered

 

My little brain says(just an opinion..ok) 5 years max before stealth as it is on the raptor is

totaly negated..lotta money to be at the top for 5 years

 

Pay up then.

Stealth is for 'current and future threats'. Just about everything that has been tried to date has either not even reached the prototype stage or has been highly impractical.

 

It's like saying that ECM would totally negate use of missiles.

[Weta43]

Isn't it more like saying second generation ECM would negate first generation radar/missiles.

[tflash]

Nope. The information is -very- well organized for the pilot to avoid -just- that.

 

Of course, but that doesn't do away with the fundamental problem. The big thrill of flying in the past was that you din't now what was ahead of you. SA had to do with "checking your six" and avoiding to loose track of a bandit.

 

21st century warfare is very different: all the info you need is there, on the displays. you can win the battle not only by your instinct and reflexes but by using your brain throughout.

 

Thinking seems to me a lot easier in an armchair however than at 1.5 mach.

 

I read somewhere that the F-35 info will be so overwhelming that you will have to train hard to cope with it.

 

Same holds for F-22. Of course, with such a plane, one will want to do the "mission impossible" and penetrate highly defended airspace to strike precisely. Forget about BVR. ROE will dictate very close-in engagements.

 

It's like using LGB bombs: it is not simpler than dive bombing, in fact it requires much more attention. BUT you can be very precise. Of course if you do not want to use F-22 to its full potential, avionics will be easier to use than current ones.

[Crusty]

Pay up then.

Stealth is for 'current and future threats'. Just about everything that has been tried to date has either not even reached the prototype stage or has been highly impractical.

 

It's like saying that ECM would totally negate use of missiles.

 

Somehow you totaly missed my point:huh:

[Guest IguanaKing]

Low observability is all relative. It won't be completely negated, it will simply become less and less effective than it is now. Other, conventional aircraft, just as they are now, will STILL be much easier to detect. The goal is to be less visible to enemy sensors, not necessarily completely invisible. ;)

[TucksonSonny]

Yep...

 

Oh and about the radar. The Raptors radar beam changes direction, power, and shape so fast that RWR's have a hard time finding it.

 

It won't matter if they detect the radar on an RWR anyways, as the Raptors radar will direct a full power beam of energy at the bandit and effective turn his plane into a WW1 biplane from overloading the sensors. ;)

 

Thats at least whats been published about it, and that's only 10% of its capability I bet ya.

 

Cool down F-22 dudes:

The F-22 raptor program had one major imperfection. Engineers could never cool down the exhaust-gases (leaving behind) fewer than 2000°C except by letting it fly under 5000ft at a ridiculous slow speed of 300kts.

Consequently the typhoon can detect, track and lock and destroy the raptor with his ABVRAAM (Meteor) from upper limit of 80nm with his PIRATE system. The combination of Meteor/ PIRATE system basically makes stealth technology completely useless.

The PIRATE, or Passive Infra Red Airborne Tracking Equipment is a 2nd generation Imaging Infra Red (IIR) system and performs this duty of passive detection.

The technology

PIRATE incorporates both a Forward Looking Infra Red (or FLIR) and Infra Red Search and Track (or IRST) capability. The system itself utilises a highly sensitive Infra Red sensor mounted to the port side of the canopy. This equipment scans across wavelengths from 3 to 11 µm in two bands. This allows the detection of both the hot exhaust plumes of jet engines as well as surface heating caused by friction. By supercooling the sensor even small variations in temperature can be detected at long range. Although no definitive ranges have been released an upper limit of 80nm has been hinted.

BTW, the Pirate-system which was developed for the typhoon was already bought in and integrated in the F-22.

Before you ask, I can’t give you my source.

:megalol:

[Pilotasso]

Cool down F-22 dudes:

The F-22 raptor program had one major imperfection. Engineers could never cool down the exhaust-gases (leaving behind) fewer than 2000°C except by letting it fly under 5000ft at a ridiculous slow speed of 300kts.

 

Thats ludricous. You can only reach that temperature with welding torches.

 

Gas turbine exaust is typicaly 600-800ºc, and thats because of thermodynamic dissociation phenomena, and added to that, the engines bypass decreases the exaust temperature considerably.

At 2000ºc you could track targets hundreds of miles away and then it would mean whatever was flying expeling gases as hot as that would have its engine trashed. Most steel alloys become useless at 500ºc celsius and nickel super alloys usualy go at 1200ºc, but thats pretty much extreme already. Metals are not fire proof you know. If you exceed those temperatures, they wont melt or become red hot but youll have reduced tenacity and heavy oxydation. after it coolds down, its debris.

[23rd_Drago]

A claim isn't everything!

 

Agree. This reminds me of the similar claims about M1A1 Abrams tanks. “Experts” wrote multiple books & columns on how superior this tank is compared to anything else in the world and how multiple tests and mock-up simulations proved that it’s impossible to put it out of action with a single anti-tank round. Turned out quite differently in Iraq, didn’t it? Until Raptor achieves real combat statistics against real targets… they can claim it has 1000:0 kill-to-loss ratio against superman, for all I care.

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

Strategically, for USA, it is better to work on designing a car engine/technology that will take us at 100mpg then designing a fighter airplane that nobody can shoot down in the next 30 years!

[23rd_Drago]

The only propaganda there came from Serbia and Russia, when they claimed things like shooting down amazing numebrs of (manned) aircraft, inluding a B-2 or two ... interestingly enough, people were counting the correct number of B-2's present on airbases ... ;)

 

Yes, and U.S. somehow managed to destroy 3 times the armor Serbian Army ever had... or so it claims.

[GGTharos]

They were counting decoys.

[23rd_Drago]

They were counting decoys.

 

I like hot dogs!!

[23rd_Drago]

It doesn't change the fact that Serbian armor was inferior.

 

Mexican hockey team rulezz!!

[Force_Feedback]

Strategically, for USA, it is better to work on designing a car engine/technology that will take us at 100mpg then designing a fighter airplane that nobody can shoot down in the next 30 years!

 

Let's hope they can create a V8 that produces more than 250 hp, well, amybe in 20 years. If the US would tune their engines, there would be no oil shortage, and the Arabs won't ask $70 per barrel. Oh well, maybe some day pigs will fly, an we'll see properly tuned engines in American cars. Oh well, at least the doors don't jam, and no cutting tools are needed to roll down a window ;)

[23rd_Drago]

If the US would tune their engines, there would be no oil shortage...

 

That's why GM and Ford are on the verge of bankruptcy and the majority of us here buy Honda, Acura or Toyota. :)

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

It doesn't change the fact that Serbian armor was inferior.

What is the point?

[D-Scythe]

Cool down F-22 dudes:

The F-22 raptor program had one major imperfection. Engineers could never cool down the exhaust-gases (leaving behind) fewer than 2000°C except by letting it fly under 5000ft at a ridiculous slow speed of 300kts.

Consequently the typhoon can detect, track and lock and destroy the raptor with his ABVRAAM (Meteor) from upper limit of 80nm with his PIRATE system. The combination of Meteor/ PIRATE system basically makes stealth technology completely useless.

The PIRATE, or Passive Infra Red Airborne Tracking Equipment is a 2nd generation Imaging Infra Red (IIR) system and performs this duty of passive detection.

The technology

PIRATE incorporates both a Forward Looking Infra Red (or FLIR) and Infra Red Search and Track (or IRST) capability. The system itself utilises a highly sensitive Infra Red sensor mounted to the port side of the canopy. This equipment scans across wavelengths from 3 to 11 µm in two bands. This allows the detection of both the hot exhaust plumes of jet engines as well as surface heating caused by friction. By supercooling the sensor even small variations in temperature can be detected at long range. Although no definitive ranges have been released an upper limit of 80nm has been hinted.

BTW, the Pirate-system which was developed for the typhoon was already bought in and integrated in the F-22.

Before you ask, I can’t give you my source.

:megalol:

 

 

Um, IRSTs are pretty much useless BVR unless they can be cued by radar, datalink, or the Mk.1 eyeball. Unlike radar, IR systems have major problems dealing with clutter that they simply cannot filter (like radar can, with doppler).

 

And I'm sure some of the $60+ billion that went into the F-22 program dealt with IR stealth. Either way you cut it, the Raptor is unbeatable BVR.

[Crusty]

What is the point?

 

the need to sound superior

 

...probably also the main reason these threads go on so much with the same old stuff

[Weta43]

'Um, IRSTs are pretty much useless BVR unless they can be cued by radar, datalink, or the Mk.1 eyeball. '

 

But hasn't it already been established EWR can track the F-22 as they operate an a longer wavelength, so they can cue you to an area in space, then if you have 2 sensors for triangulation, a datalink & mid course correction, maybe you have a hit.

 

Re the 700 degree C ( 1300 degree F ) exhaust of a jet not being visible or lockable against a -30 degree C background (or even against the 20 degree C clutter of the earth) Maveric seekers hold a lock (old technology further resrticted by having to fit in the missile) on a target with a 30 - 60 degree C difference between them and the background with plenty of clutter. Here you have a 10 -20 fold increase in contrast & (mostly - F-22's presumably chosing to fly reasonably high) low clutter backgrounds. Couple that with the fact that a spy satelite can resolve a 4cm object from space, & someone can build an optical system that can track a 300 degree nozzle ( or a hot nosecone ) BVR gainst a cold sky once they have a general idea of where it is.

[nscode]

Couple that with the fact that US will never go against an enemy that has such resources

[GGTharos]

'Um, IRSTs are pretty much useless BVR unless they can be cued by radar, datalink, or the Mk.1 eyeball. '

 

But hasn't it already been established EWR can track the F-22 as they operate an a longer wavelength, so they can cue you to an area in space, then if you have 2 sensors for triangulation, a datalink & mid course correction, maybe you have a hit.

 

Re the 700 degree C ( 1300 degree F ) exhaust of a jet not being visible or lockable against a -30 degree C background (or even against the 20 degree C clutter of the earth) Maveric seekers hold a lock (old technology further resrticted by having to fit in the missile) on a target with a 30 - 60 degree C difference between them and the background with plenty of clutter. Here you have a 10 -20 fold increase in contrast & (mostly - F-22's presumably chosing to fly reasonably high) low clutter backgrounds. Couple that with the fact that a spy satelite can resolve a 4cm object from space, & someone can build an optical system that can track a 300 degree nozzle ( or a hot nosecone ) BVR gainst a cold sky once they have a general idea of where it is.

 

It doesn't work like that. Mavericks have a pretty good zoom, and fairly good resolution. Even the new CCD equipped AAMs don't match this very well (primarily due to lack of zoom) and rosette seekers are much worse at acquiring 'relatively cool' things at a distance. AAM IRH seekers arequite limited by many things.

In the case of a seeker that -can- see quite far, it's quite lkely to run out of coolant by the time it reaches the target. In other words, there are basically a lot of limitations imposed on AAM IRH seekers.

 

Spy sattelites don't even enter into it ... nor do their optics.

 

You won't be picking up an F-22 (or any aircraft) BVR on your IRST in most cases. Why do you think radars keep getting more and more upgrades, and the IRST is always 'a backup' or a 'close in device'? ;)

[Pilotasso]

Sidwinder seekers are the size of a fist. Mavericks seekers are the size of your head.

 

I also cant figure out why, everytime somenone says the F-22 is superior, theres always a flanker lover who thinks IRST is the miraculous answer to it.