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Does anyone know how effective these flares are for close range ir missles. I mean I would think the flares are just mostley worthless...just curious,

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Does anyone know how effective these flares are for close range ir missles. I mean I would think the flares are just mostley worthless...just curious,

 

The AH64 has a good IR shielding system at the exhaust...so i think it will work a bit...but......when the missile is close..i dont know

 

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Nope, that's the ALQ-144 Discoball, an IR jammer like the one the Su-25T has in its tail. Except the -144 works on incoming missiles from all aspects, I think.

 

The IR shielding system that's being referred to is in the AH-64's engines. They're built into their exhuast to reduce their IR signature against heat-seeking missiles.

 

Does anyone know how effective these flares are for close range ir missles. I mean I would think the flares are just mostley worthless...just curious,

 

Flares would be quite useful in most situations. Can you explain why you think otherwise?

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Yes, i was referring to the engines...they are shielded....or how you can call it...

 

The AN/ALQ-144 system is an omni-directional active infrared Countermeasures Set which protects the EH-1H, EH-1X, EH-60A, MH-60K, UH-60A, AH-1F, AH-64A, OV-1D, and RV-1D aircraft from air-to-air and ground-to-air heat seeking (infrared) missiles. The airborne installed system included in this family of equipment are designed to provide jamming of threat IR missile systems. They are active, continuous operating, omni-directional, electrically fuel-fired IR jamming systems designed to confuse or decoy threat IR missile systems. The AN/ALQ-144A (1) and (3) are upgraded versions of the AN/ALQ-144 (V)1 and (V)3 for helicopter applications. The AN/ALQ-147A (V)1 and (V)2 are designed for fixed-wing aircraft.

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Apache is an awesome chopper but it has been downed quite a few times (as any chopper would in the same conditions). Unfortunately choppers are just too fragile in combat. Too many critical moving parts. They are obviously good for recon, but then the new drones are taking that to a higher level. I wonder how much longer attack choppers will be around.

 

 

http://www.slate.com/id/2081906/

 

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-04/11/content_322396.htm

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Apache is an awesome chopper but it has been downed quite a few times (as any chopper would in the same conditions). Unfortunately choppers are just too fragile in combat. Too many critical moving parts. They are obviously good for recon, but then the new drones are taking that to a higher level. I wonder how much longer attack choppers will be around.

 

 

http://www.slate.com/id/2081906/

 

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-04/11/content_322396.htm

 

But, when you hear with what it is downed....like in iraq with a rifle...you can armour the copper against it or minimize the damage by armour it.

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But, when you hear with what it is downed....like in iraq with a rifle...you can armour the copper against it or minimize the damage by armour it.

 

Um, what? No AH-64 has been downed by a rifle. The one shown on TV, which the Iraqis *claimed* to have downed with a AK-47, had no indication of damage anywhere and was more likely downed by a critical system failure.

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Um, what?

 

"No AH-64 has been downed by a rifle."

 

The one shown on TV, which the Iraqis *claimed* to have downed with a AK-47, had no indication of damage anywhere and was more likely downed by a critical system failure.

 

And your source for 'knowing' this is... I understand if you believe that an apache is incapable of being downed by a rifle but you cant just right it off as another system failure. It may be hard for the defence department to admit but i just cant believe all the failures that occur in war are really what they say they are. Then again this is just my opinion and who REALLY knows. Another thing is im wondering if you got to inspect the apache close up all over for the damage which aint there or are you going off a few photos posted on the ever truthful internet??

Not trying to tear ya down and no hard feeling meant but I just cant understand comments like this unless ur a ranking authority to some high level info in which ill keep my trap shut. More likely its the denial that sometimes it would most definitely be possible (again i dont really know but it seems most likely possible although simply an extremely small probability) for an ill equipped arab farmer to get lucky with his AK.

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And your source for 'knowing' this is... I understand if you believe that an apache is incapable of being downed by a rifle but you cant just right it off as another system failure. It may be hard for the defence department to admit but i just cant believe all the failures that occur in war are really what they say they are. Then again this is just my opinion and who REALLY knows. Another thing is im wondering if you got to inspect the apache close up all over for the damage which aint there or are you going off a few photos posted on the ever truthful internet??

Not trying to tear ya down and no hard feeling meant but I just cant understand comments like this unless ur a ranking authority to some high level info in which ill keep my trap shut. More likely its the denial that sometimes it would most definitely be possible (again i dont really know but it seems most likely possible although simply an extremely small probability) for an ill equipped arab farmer to get lucky with his AK.

 

Okay, a source would be nice? Or some proof? It's not that I don't believe you, it's just that I like to see some proof first before I believe something as unlikely as an Iraqi farmer getting lucky with his AK. Otherwise, I'm probably gonna write this off as another "war story" that the media has blown out of proportion. According to them, the Iraqis had Kornet ATGMs you know ;)

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There's a video out there showing an AH-64 being shot down by MANPADS ... so much for the disco ball ...

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Um, what? No AH-64 has been downed by a rifle. The one shown on TV, which the Iraqis *claimed* to have downed with a AK-47, had no indication of damage anywhere and was more likely downed by a critical system failure.

 

Shooting down an aircraft can also be seen as "intentionally causing a critical system failure" ;)

 

By the way, the Dutch Apaches (AH-64DN) are the only ones to deploy flares.

Others have missile rails (standard AH-64D) or nav lights (AH-64A) on their wing tips.

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Shooting down an aircraft can also be seen as "intentionally causing a critical system failure" ;)

 

By the way, the Dutch Apaches (AH-64DN) are the only ones to deploy flares.

Others have missile rails (standard AH-64D) or nav lights (AH-64A) on their wing tips.

The Apache will forever be known as the biggest steaming pile of brown in the world to me. The Army should move onto this platform. heroAH-1ZmPg750x365.jpg Beaut...aint she?

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1. Because Lockheed hasnt been building helicopters as long as Bell has.

2. The Cobra is combat tested and proven over the last 30 some odd years and at LEAST 4 wars.

3. Cheaper and more reliable than the Apache.

4. The gun doesnt jam like the 30mm on the Apache, and the avionics doenst create problems unlike the Apaches vast avionics problems.

5. A Cobra is a grunts best friend.

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the other thing that is actually reducing the apaches (and other helicopters) heatsignature is the fact that the exhaust of the engines is directed into the rotor stream of the main rotor, causing the heat to be dispersed and the exhaust being cooled. Easy technique isnt it? :)

 

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1. Because Lockheed hasnt been building helicopters as long as Bell has.

2. The Cobra is combat tested and proven over the last 30 some odd years and at LEAST 4 wars.

3. Cheaper and more reliable than the Apache.

4. The gun doesnt jam like the 30mm on the Apache, and the avionics doenst create problems unlike the Apaches vast avionics problems.

5. A Cobra is a grunts best friend.

 

 

The Apache is Boeing.....The Apache is also combat tested...remember the gulf war? Cheaper yes....but also even effective.....how is the combat survivability for the pilot? how is the sound reduction and IR reduction? How is the anti FOD system? how can it manouvre on the ground?

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The Apache is Boeing.....The Apache is also combat tested...remember the gulf war? Cheaper yes....but also even effective.....how is the combat survivability for the pilot? how is the sound reduction and IR reduction? How is the anti FOD system? how can it manouvre on the ground?

It was proven in combat to kill more friendlies than the enemy. IT had more break downs than OJ simpson, and it is a big steaming pile of brown. And the Cobra has been through it all since the early 70s. Face it...the Apache sucks.

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