First mission questions

[hhatch]

I finally went out on my first real missions. Until now I was doing very simple training missions I created to learn various elements of the game. I did the River Raider mission. I had to run it about 5 times but I finally got all 6 targets without getting killed.

 

The main threats were several SA 11 sam sites. However these were not mentioned as threats in the briefing and they did not show up on the map. I wanted to knock out the missiles but with little intel I could not find them so I had to go after the targets.

 

My goal was to not get shot at but I did and managed to survive with maneuvers and counter measures.

 

I did some reading and watched some videos about avoiding missiles and I tried several approaches. Once I flew low at about 1500 behind some hills and avoided radar but the maverick missed. Then I did the same thing but when I was in range I pulled up to gain some altitude and fired and turned. I'm wondering what is the lowest altitude that a mav can be used ? Another approach that worked a couple of times with the Mavs was to fly at about 10,000 or so and when I saw the location of the SAMS on radar I turned in the opposite direction and when in range fired as I was turning away.

 

The easiest method was to fly at about 24,000 and drop GBU 38 bombs.

 

Generally speaking it seems like it would be preferable to knock out the threats first then get the targets. Is this the best way to go ?

 

I'm wondering if these approaches were sound and what other tactics I might employ.

[Yurgon]

I think you did a very good thing by testing various approaches.

 

I also don't think there's one definitive answer.

 

As I recall it, since the briefing says the defenses will become more deadly the further the player advances, I tried to keep my stand-off weapons for the last targets and use the short-range ones early. I also flew high, as that increased my weapons' range, increased my reaction time against threats, put me out of harms way of any short-range air defenses like Shilkas and MANPADs, and also meant the medium range missiles had to use more energy to reach me.

 

The GBU12s went first, because if I had to evade a missile while lasing the target, the bomb would certainly be wasted. Then came the GBU38s because they're fire and forget, and finally the Mavs, which offer the longest range.

 

I thought about going after the air defenses, but they're usually very hard to find, and I think the player doesn't have enough weapons to kill all AD plus the primary targets (or would have to re-arm in between).

 

Basically, if you can achieve your primary target without engaging air defenses, do it.

 

In a realistic, well designed scenario, air defenses should be someone else's target. And if they screw up, I would rather take all my ammo back home than get myself killed while trying to do SEAD with a slow flying Warthog. :)

Of course, if the primary objective was of an "at all cost" type, the decision might be different, but usually, you have one or two objectives, and everything else is not your business. :thumbup:

[Mike77]

Yurgon- thank you very much; excellent post! That's a keeper

 

hhatch- I'm still getting situated, haven't tried a real mission yet, so I'm a few steps behind you. So glad you asked the question, I'll be needing this info real soon now

 

Mike

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk. System specs: Windows 7 Pro, EVGA X58 3x classified 3 MOBO, i7 960 @3.2Ghz, 24Gb Ram, Nvidia EVGA GTX 780ti with 3 Gb VRAM.

[baltic_dragon]

What I would add to Yurgon's post:

 

A. Keep an eye on RWR and read carefully the part on it in the manual. Know what symbol describes which threat, cross - reference it with maximum ranges and altitudes.

 

B. If unsure if there are any IR launchers in the area, keep a hard deck of 13 000 feet AGL. Whenever making a strafing or rocket run, pop flares (2 every 1-1.5 sec) and have an emergency programme ready (4 every 0.5 sec). Don't focus on target only, if you are low and hear the MWS sound it means that the missile has already had 1-2 seconds head start. Often you might see the trail before you hear the warning, so don't focus on your piper, keep your situational awareness at all times.

 

C. One thing to remember - Iglas are really inaccurate al low altitudes, so if you have to be low, fly fast. There is a high chance that it won't be able to hit you. But always remember about point B.

[hhatch]

Those are helpful tips. I keep a printed copy of the RWR close by. I know that the L symbol indicates laser illumination. Does the L appear before a launch or only after ? My reaction time to radar info is slow, but I think I just need more time and repetition. One problem I had was in a quick mission where there were lots of planes enemy and friendly. There were so many radar signals and missile launches I became totally confused because the radar does not distinguish who is who.

 

I was looking online at some specs for a version of the SA 11 and noticed 2 pieces of information one was called altitude missile (20-22k m) and the other engagement range (32-35k m . What is the difference ?

[Yurgon]

I was looking online at some specs for a version of the SA 11 and noticed 2 pieces of information one was called altitude missile (20-22k m) and the other engagement range (32-35k m . What is the difference ?

 

Do I understand correctly that your question is: Why is a missile's maximum altitude different from its maximum engagement range?

 

Seeing as, by their very nature, SAMs are launched from the surface, they need to climb a lot during their short and violent lifetime. But even for a SAM, fighting gravity takes a lot of energy.

 

So if you imagine their maximum engagement range as a half-dome, this dome is more or less dented, or a little flat, at the top. That's the missile's maximum altitude.

 

If the missile is launched at a target at medium or low altitude, it doesn't have to climb as much and can fly a lot further, depending on air density and probably a thousand other factors that I don't really know about.

 

The important thing is, if you want to make sure you don't get hit by a SAM located at a known location, you can either stay at least as far away from it as the missile's max engagement range, or you could fly above its max altitude, or you could penetrate its max engagement dome at a high enough altitude to still give you a good chance to evade it in case the operators launch at max range.

 

BTW, DCS SAMs are almost always launched at max range, or you can easily trick them into shooting you while you just barely touch their engagement envelope. Then just fly away and watch the missiles fall to the ground as they run out of fuel and energy. If you know the amount of launchers at a known SAM site, you could drain them empty and enjoy a relatively safe airspace while they reload. ;)

[hhatch]

Yes, that was the question. Thanks for the info.