[NOT A VALID WEAPON FOR ANY FC3 AIRCRAFT] Kh-31

[hesterj]

I am a newcomer to DCS from the publicity of all the great new modules that have been coming out, and I have greatly enjoyed my purchase of FC3 over the past few months and the more recent NTTR.

 

My question is as to why the Kh-31 missile is not allowed for player controlled aircraft in DCS. It was the first anti ship missile to be deployed on almost any tactical aircraft used by Russia and SU and for this reason I am surprised that it is not modelled. All I have found is that the RWR is not capable of using the anti-radiation version of it on FC3 aircraft and that for the antiship version requires a ground radar that isn't in the game. But for the ARM version I think the same modelling from the Su-25t could be ported, as the RWR appears to be the same ingame, and the sea skimming missile could use an easy lock-on-to-the-biggest-thing-I-see mode that would require 0 UI implementation and would add realistic functionality and new features to the game.

 

In other words, I think that the Su-27 and Mig-29 need this antiship and SEAD functionality, even if in a basic and inerior form, as it would be relatively quick to implement, is realistic, and would add new and deep elements to DCS.

[Wings_Of_Liberty]

I think so, but you forgot Su-33 XD

[mattebubben]

The only aircraft currently ingame that should be able to use any of the KH-31s is the Su-33.

 

And it should only be able to carry the KH-31A anti ship missile.

 

None of the Modeld Mig-29 or Su-27 variants can or should be able to use it.

 

and no su-25 even the newest Su-25SM models can use either the Antiship or Sead variants of the KH-31.

 

I would be all for the Su-33 getting the abillity to use the Antiship KH-31A.

 

It should only get the antiship variant though and not the sead variant of the missile since it cant carry that missile as it does not have the systems / wiering needed.

[Sweep]

Uhh...

 

You sure the -33 has those? I thought it had no AGM/precision weapons capabilities?

 

Sounds pretty cool, though! :)

[Ironhand]

Unfortunately, we haven't been able to play with either the Kh-31A or -31P for a long time. Only the AI has that privilege. The Su-27M, Su-25TM, Su-30, and Su-34. There may be one or two more but those are the ones I know of.

[BlazexX23Xx]

Based on Wikipedia the Su-33 can carry the Kh-31A but i have heard that many people doubt it actually can,It would awesome if the Su-33 could carry the Kh31 in DCS.

 

Unfortunately, we haven't been able to play with either the Kh-31A or -31P for a long time. Only the AI has that privilege. The Su-27M, Su-25TM, Su-30, and Su-34. There may be one or two more but those are the ones I know of.

 

Su-27M?

 

Su-24M can carry the kh-31 too.

Edited January 1, 2016 by BlazexX23Xx

[Ironhand]

It was removed from the sim's Su-33 inventory years ago. We had it for awhile in FC1.x but that's the last time I can remember seeing it. It was determined not to be a valid weapon for use on the -33.

[Seaeagle]

The only aircraft currently ingame that should be able to use any of the KH-31s is the Su-33.

 

And it should only be able to carry the KH-31A anti ship missile.

 

None of the Modeld Mig-29 or Su-27 variants can or should be able to use it.

 

Nor can the Su-33. The Kh-31A requires a radar with air-to-surface modes for targeting/control and the Su-33 has the same radar as the basic Su-27.

 

I would be all for the Su-33 getting the abillity to use the Antiship KH-31A.

 

It should only get the antiship variant though and not the sead variant of the missile since it cant carry that missile as it does not have the systems / wiering needed.

 

If anything it would be the other way around - some Su-33s have been upgraded with the new Pastel RWR, which can control ARMs like the Kh-31P.

[Tarres]

Seaegle, I think that was the 27KUB, the naval flanker with PGM/AGM/ASM capabilities.

 

The 33 will be decomised and replaced with the new 29K/KUB (budget and capabilities) after the planned refit of the Kuznetsov, that will take 3 or 4 years (SS-N-19 removed, SAM updated, new engines...) to be completed.

 

For FC· and weapons, well, even the 25A and the 25T have weapons that can´t carry IRL:

.-the 25A WCS has a limitation of 2 ballistic weapons, so you can´t carry 4 types of weapons in a flight.

.- the only SEAD´s of the 25 family are the dozen of modified UB ex-bielorussian sold to Peru that can carry the Phantasmagoria pod and carry the KH-58. And the the pod is manually operated by the WSO in the second seat

[mattebubben]

my mistake.

 

The Su-33 was never able to use the KH-31.

 

It was planned to have an upgrade to give it that abillity to use anti ship missiles like the KH-31 and the KH-41 in the 90s but it was never done due to budget cuts.

[Seaeagle]

Seaegle, I think that was the 27KUB, the naval flanker with PGM/AGM/ASM capabilities.

 

No its the Su-33 - there were rumours that some Su-33s had been upgraded with the Pastel RWS already some 10 years ago. More recently(couple of years ago) some airframes underwent a modest upgrade, for which the Pastel was confirmed as being part of the package.

 

The Su-27KUB(Su-33UB) is an entirely different beast.

 

The 33 will be decomised and replaced with the new 29K/KUB (budget and capabilities) after the planned refit of the Kuznetsov, that will take 3 or 4 years (SS-N-19 removed, SAM updated, new engines...) to be completed.

 

Nope :) . Latest news is that the Su-33s will be upgraded and remain in service for at least another 10 years alongside the new MiG-29K/KUBs.

[Seaeagle]

my mistake.

 

The Su-33 was never able to use the KH-31.

 

It was planned to have an upgrade to give it that abillity to use anti ship missiles like the KH-31 and the KH-41 in the 90s but it was never done due to budget cuts.

 

Yes thats right - IIRC the upgrade in question involved the Zhuk-27 radar.

[Tarres]

Thanks Seaeagle!

 

I suppose that will be a modest upgrade for the airframes and nav and weapons system within a modest budget.

 

Yes, now I remember, the proposed upgrade for the 33 in the mid-90's.

[Seaeagle]

Thanks Seaeagle!

 

I suppose that will be a modest upgrade for the airframes and nav and weapons system within a modest budget.

 

Yes I think so too. I have heard some people suggesting that it might get a deeper modernisation(along the lines of the -27SM), but I have not seen any official statements to support this.

 

Anyway, apparently the Russian navy will have two regiments of deck fighters in the near future - the current one(279 KIAP) with upgraded Su-33s and a new one for the MiG-29K/KUBs.

[FraserNZL]

Hey I've used the kh31p on the su25t aND it works really good. Flys way different to the kh58 it's just a matter of entering 1 line of code into a game. I have created a wee mod if anyone is interested pm me for link

[pepin1234]

For FC· and weapons, well, even the 25A and the 25T have weapons that can´t carry IRL:

.-the 25A WCS has a limitation of 2 ballistic weapons, so you can´t carry 4 types of weapons in a flight.

 

Two ballistic weapons example:

 

Two rocket container, two non guided bombs, two Kh-25ML, two Kh-29L. This is still a real life payload.

 

You can even set whatever bomb or rocket, but if you know the ballistic different limitation of every weapon is still realistic you can use it with good success. You only need training and be a good skill pilot.

 

 

.- the only SEAD´s of the 25 family are the dozen of modified UB ex-bielorussian sold to Peru that can carry the Phantasmagoria pod and carry the KH-58. And the the pod is manually operated by the WSO in the second seat

 

No true. The Su-25T and TM is capable to make a HUD representation for the Kh-58 and Kh-31 via Phantasmagoria targeting pod. Even the kh-31 must be a realistic weapon for Su-25T playable, I don't see a technical limitation for Kh-31 in Su-25T. Same targeting pod is used for both Kh-58 and Kh-31. Probably ED don't like a super-capable playable aircraft even when the number build of the T/TM was only 9 units.

 

Could you share the source of the Peruvian Su-25UB modernization? I would like see the HUD of the second pilot for targeting.

Edited January 9, 2016 by pepin1234

[hesterj]

Pepin, the Su-25 family cannot carry Kh-31. Need to be at least Mach 0.6 so the missile has sufficient velocity to build up to ramjet speed with initial solid booster.

 

Edit: The Peruvian air force uses Kh-31A on their Mig 29SMT. Is there any evidence that Mig 29S could use R77 in real life? I think that Kh-31A on 29S is just as much of a stretch as R-77 on Mig 29S.

Edited January 9, 2016 by hesterj

[GGTharos]

Some some specific 29S are wired for it (9.13S), the RuAF never trained to use them as far as we've been able to tell, including from VVS contacts.

[pepin1234]

Pepin, the Su-25 family cannot carry Kh-31. Need to be at least Mach 0.6 so the missile has sufficient velocity to build up to ramjet speed with initial solid booster

 

Su-25T can get 950km/h to launch Kh-31. Anyway the Moskit missile is a stationary launched missile, this missile is ramjet too.

 

The Kh-31 was tested in Su-25T, is not sure the initial fly speed is the reason for not implement the Kh-31 in Su-25. Probably the limited service ceiling together with the poor speed in launch make a poor performance for an expensive missile like this.

Edited January 10, 2016 by pepin1234