CCIP questions

[hhatch]

I've spent about 25 hours doing nothing but ccip bombing with MK 82's mostly in 3/9 mode. I had literally zero success for a long time, but I have reached a point where I have a 70-80% hit rate which was a big improvement.

 

However, I don't do things completely by the book. For some reason I was having a great deal of trouble keeping the azimuth steering line properly lined up. That may be a comment on my piloting skills, but I found it to be harder than a low visibility ILS landing. I've done many of those in fsx. I ended up setting the min altitude at 4000. I go into a dive and go below 4000 so that I get an X in the reticle. I line up the pipper with the target, press and hold the weapon release button and the bombs release immediately or in 1-2 seconds after. I seldom see the asl for more than a couple of seconds and often I don't see it at all. Sometimes the PIBL turned into a single solid line. This seems to work consistently. I also noticed on many of the instructional videos that there were many reticles with an x. Is this a common way of doing this type of bombing ?

 

I also keep my dives fairly steep so that the reticle does not move to quickly. This seems to help with the asl and timing the release.

 

I also used ripple single with 3 bombs with 75 ft spacing. What are the considerations when trying to determine spacing ? Also would it be advisable to drop a little early in ripple mode to get better coverage?

 

I'm trying to figure out how to do higher altitude bombing with the MK 82 but I had no luck with CCRP. I have not fiddled with entering wind data in the cdu yet, but in my mission I had 0 wind at all levels.

 

I can't say that these dumb bombs are my favorite weapon, but I wanted to see if I could learn to use all of the weapons in the A 10c arsenal.

[fltsimbuff]

I could be wrong, but I've always taken the X (if it is the one you are talking about) to mean "Stop trying to drop a bomb and pull up before you plow into the ground" and thus mostly ignore it.

 

It sounds like you're basically dive-bombing, which does tend to be a more accurate delivery method versus shallower dives. I haven't seen modern aircraft use this technique much, probably due to the danger (you make a great target for AAA while making a steep dive).

 

There's my 2 cents, though I am by no means and expert on dumb bomb employment.

[Yurgon]

Disclaimer, I suck at CCIP in the A-10C and hardly ever use it. :smartass:

 

I also used ripple single with 3 bombs with 75 ft spacing. What are the considerations when trying to determine spacing ? Also would it be advisable to drop a little early in ripple mode to get better coverage?

 

I think I read recently that when rippling several bombs, the pipper will be at the center of the (projected) impact points, meaning you should always aim at the center of the targets.

 

You should be able to use the scale on the TGP yardstick to approximate the distance between your targets and choose a good spacing based on that. But I'm sure experts could write books about this topic alone. Besides, see my disclaimer above. ;)

 

Or set up a training mission with lots and lots of targets scattered across the area and then use TacView to approximate the blast range and deduct the preferred spacing based on that.

 

I'm trying to figure out how to do higher altitude bombing with the MK 82 but I had no luck with CCRP. I have not fiddled with entering wind data in the cdu yet, but in my mission I had 0 wind at all levels.

 

With good wind data, my Mk-82s are usually pretty close to the target from Angels 20 in CCRP. Surely no good against tanks or moving targets, but the splash damage should help with infantry and you might also get a kill on trucks, structures and maybe score a lucky hit on APCs.

 

In Falcon 4.0, I hated CCRP and always preferred CCIP because it seemed much easier to use. In A-10C, it's exactly opposite for me. ;)

[Eddie]

Have a read, than ask any specific questions you have.

 

http://www.476vfightergroup.com/showthread.php?3131-Air-to-Surface-Weapon-Delivery-Methods

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=1941170#post1941170

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=99688

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=117350

[SUBS17]

Shallow dives with CCIP are better as it gives you more time to pickle and all you do is keep the FPM lined up with the PIBL. Just remember that when dropping CCIP is like firing a rifle with marksmanship. You need to have wings level and no movement in pitch or roll until after bombs are released. Ideal practice in DCS is with no wind otherwise more advanced techniques such as crabbing are required. Also for CCIP start off with big tgts and work your way down to smaller ones like vehicles then soldiers lol.:thumbup:

 

Types of bombs to use you can use MK82 slicks but high drags can also be handy since release is at lower altitude and lower dive angle = more time to pickle.:joystick:

[SUBS17]

preferred spacing based on that.

 

 

 

With good wind data, my Mk-82s are usually pretty close to the target from Angels 20 in CCRP. Surely no good against tanks or moving targets, but the splash damage should help with infantry and you might also get a kill on trucks, structures and maybe score a lucky hit on APCs.

 

In Falcon 4.0, I hated CCRP and always preferred CCIP because it seemed much easier to use. In A-10C, it's exactly opposite for me. ;)

 

20k is quite high unless there is a AAA/SAM threat, otherwise a lower altitude is the better way as you can better see the tgt. For CCRP in F-16 in some conditions in the weather the CCIP might be ruled out because of dynamic weather (and also LGBs with tgtpod) so CCRP with A/G radar is a good backup. (that's why you can switch CCRP/CCIP/DTOSS on hotas in the event everything changes and tgt is obscured by weather or smoke) IMO the SU25T is in fact easiest aircraft for CCRP in DCS because you can lock tgt with the tgtpod and fly auto pilot to tgt and just hold pickle over the tgt.:joystick:

[Yurgon]

20k is quite high unless there is a AAA/SAM threat, otherwise a lower altitude is the better way as you can better see the tgt.

 

Yup, agreed.

 

The point I was trying to make was that good wind data really helps with CCRP, even from rather high altitudes. :thumbup:

[SUBS17]

Yup, agreed.

 

The point I was trying to make was that good wind data really helps with CCRP, even from rather high altitudes. :thumbup:

 

Wind data is a big help the more accurate the better if only the A-10 had the same auto pilot modes as the SU25T.:pilotfly:

[hhatch]

Have a read, than ask any specific questions you have.

 

http://www.476vfightergroup.com/showthread.php?3131-Air-to-Surface-Weapon-Delivery-Methods

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=1941170#post1941170

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=99688

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=117350

 

Thanks for the links. After reading and viewing the videos, it's obvious I don't know anything. I have so many questions I don't know where to start. So I'll start with one big issue that I saw and that is the roll in and roll out technique.

 

Until now I've been doing straight in dives. I raise the seat, lower the nose, line up the PIBL and drop.

 

I've seen videos of ccip bombing and some are straight in and others show a roll in to the target. The threads I read have a lot of discussion about this topic. Some of the stuff went right over my head. I would like to find a tutorial that summarizes and shows how all these bits of data come together.

 

I guess one good reason for the roll in roll out is to minimize threat exposure and that makes sense. It also appeared that the dives were very short in duration which would also minimize threat exposure.

 

One concern I have is being able to visually acquire targets. I can't see targets from very far away even with zooming, and depending on terrain are all but invisible. Some say use smoke but if you can't see the target where do you put the smoke ? Landmarks help but seem not too precise. I've been flying and doing recon with the tgp and using markpoints before going in.

 

I've been at this for a little over a month. It's going to take a lot more time and practice.

[Shez]

You should be able to find targets with the TGT Pod. Place a markpoint. Then you can see the markpoint on the hud. Just like you can see steerpoints on the hud.

[SUBS17]

With A-10C its better to use an SPI.(TMS forward long)

[SUBS17]

Thanks for the links. After reading and viewing the videos, it's obvious I don't know anything. I have so many questions I don't know where to start. So I'll start with one big issue that I saw and that is the roll in and roll out technique.

 

Until now I've been doing straight in dives. I raise the seat, lower the nose, line up the PIBL and drop.

 

I've seen videos of ccip bombing and some are straight in and others show a roll in to the target. The threads I read have a lot of discussion about this topic. Some of the stuff went right over my head. I would like to find a tutorial that summarizes and shows how all these bits of data come together.

 

I guess one good reason for the roll in roll out is to minimize threat exposure and that makes sense. It also appeared that the dives were very short in duration which would also minimize threat exposure.

 

One concern I have is being able to visually acquire targets. I can't see targets from very far away even with zooming, and depending on terrain are all but invisible. Some say use smoke but if you can't see the target where do you put the smoke ? Landmarks help but seem not too precise. I've been flying and doing recon with the tgp and using markpoints before going in.

 

I've been at this for a little over a month. It's going to take a lot more time and practice.

 

One reason for roll in roll out is positive G as it is a faster way to go into a dive than just lowering the nose and gets you lined up quicker also while upside down you can find the tgt easier by just looking up. Lowering the nose also works but gives less time than rolling in but if dropping high drags you can use a shallow dive angle.

Acquiring tgts with ref to JTAC coordinates you can enter them in manually and turn the targeting pod towards it (v long) then zoom out and check the terrain around the tgt find an object that stands out and use that as a reference point.eg roads/buildings

And of course if you TMS UP long it creates a HUD indicator called an SPI and that gives you directions to find the tgt in the HUD.:book:

 

So 1: enter tgt grid coordinates

2: slew targeting pod to tgt (v long).

3: TMS up long creates a SPI indicator in the HUD to mark the targets location.

Another way is to locate the tgt visually then make HUD SOI and place the TDC cursor on the tgt and TMS up long to make it SPI, then go to targeting pod SOI v long and the pod slews to the point you just made SPI. You can also if the target is on the map view click on it and write its grid coordinates if you can not locate the tgt the other way and enter them manually.

Edited January 8, 2016 by SUBS17

[hhatch]

I just went and took another look at the videos in the link Eddie posted. The videos start just before the turn to the target. It's obvious that the plane is pretty close to the target when it starts the turn. So I'm wondering how the attack run is set up initially. I'm thinking that initially the plane is flying toward the target and then a mile or so out turns so that the target will be at 3 or 9 o'clock and then rolls in from that point. Is this correct ?

[Hansolo]

I am by no means an expert but this is how I interpret the way of doing it.

 

Please have a look at the ’unguided ordnance delivery geometry’ by PhoenixBio; http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1692387&postcount=36

That should give you an idea of how to do it. If you take a look at the 476th vFG Battle Book (http://www.476vfightergroup.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=211 ) e.g. 82 30DB2 (MK82 30 degree dive bomb ripple 2) you should setup your aircraft at a base altitude of 5100ft (5.1) above target at 280knots.

 

Fly offset to the target and align it with the cockpit reference (http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1942511&postcount=52) for a 30 degree dive angle. You will probably need to do it a lot of time in order to get the correct visual setup. When target is in correct position (where 30º and tip-in reference meet) you should be at app. 1.2nm base distance. Now bank to 80º plus dive angle, in this case 110º and pull on the stick app. 3G. Look up the the top of the canopy to get visual on the target and pull the target into the HUD. When target comes into HUD unload and bank to level.

 

If done correctly then you should now be at track altitude 3600ft (3.6) above target, your flight path marker should be a 30º pitch ladder (dive angle), the target and desired release cue should be at 36º (30º dive angle plus 6º Initial Aim of Angle), the pipper should be at 43º (36º plus 7º Initial Pipper Placement).

 

Continue on 30º dive angle and let the pipper race up unto target and pickle. That should be at 2800ft (2.8) above target. After you pickle conduct your safe escape maneuver (SEM) climb (CLM), by getting into at 4G climb within 2 seconds, at 25º nose up loosen your pull and at 30º you are out of the SEM.

 

Note. The desired release cue will start to move right after you have set it at track altitude (5100ft) but do not race to keep it on target. To use Noodles words “set it and forget it”.

In the beginning don’t worry too much about IAA and IPP, just focus on the correct roll in and perform safe escape maneuver. A small word of caution don’t yank the stick back when doing SEM. You risk over-G’ing and ripping of your wings. Been there done that :-D

 

Again this may not be entirely how the pros do it ;-)

 

Cheers

Hans

[Mike77]

CCIP questions

 

hhatch- I'm new to DCS and dealing with similar issues as you. But, you are ahead of me on the learning curve so I'm learning a lot in this thread. Just thought I’d mention this in case it would be beneficial to you:

 

In order to make finding targets easier, I made a *very* simple "mission". I'm away from my PC or I would post it here.

 

There is a “flat” island on the coast, real close to Poti. It really stands out; very easy to see. So I put large trucks and some static helicopters on the Northern most point of the island. Takes finding the targets out of the equation while I'm learning the basics of deploying weapons.

 

I also put a couple of stationary, large cargo ships just off the coast, right next to the cluster of land based targets. Of course, none of the targets I'm placing can shoot back. Takes the pressure off so I can concentrate on learning the basics that I'm focused on.

 

Since there's nothing else on the island, the targets stand out. Sitting ducks would be putting it very mildly:) From a long way out, I’ll target the huge cargo ships (usually with a Maverick). Then, as I get closer, switch to another weapon type and go for the smaller targets up at the North tip of the island. Sometimes, I can hit 2 targets on 1 pass.

 

I haven't even tried rolling-in on a target yet, but I think the island would be a good place to practice those maneuvers. Flying North, to the East of the island, I can visualize putting the island at 9 o'clock and rolling to the left. The visual cues would be pretty clear, mainly the transition from water to land. And the other sides bounded by water. I'll be trying this real soon

 

Just a thought.

 

Mike

Edited January 8, 2016 by Mike77