How to disable MIG29/29S "MFD HUD repeater mode"?

[arrowd]

DCS1.5.2,FC3

SU27and SU33 have "MFD HUD repeater mode on off"key in controls setup,but no such key in mig29/29s,so ,if this fuction is on at mission start,how can i turn it off to see my rader or navigation？:(:(

[Kuky]

You can't because MiG-29 MFD in reality works only as HUD repeater so ED have changed this to match the reality.

[EAKMotorsports]

I dont think so in DCS have 3 Mig Models MiG 29A MiG29G and MiG29S I kow the 29A and Gdont have IFF and data link but the Mig 29S HAVE data link so the mfd isnt hud repeater only.

[ShuRugal]

Raises an interesting question: What does the MFD on the real MiG-29 do? HUD-repeater is probably the single most useless function possible, since all the HUD does is repeat the gauges up in the forward line-of-sight for the pilot to see without taking his eyes off the sky.

 

If all the MFD does is repeat the HUD, then the MFD becomes more of a Heads-Down-Heads-Up-Display. Since the front dash already does this job...

[RoflSeal]

To me it suggests that the HUD was prone to failure IRL.

[TheFurNinja]

To me it suggests that the HUD was prone to failure IRL.

I would not quite put it up to that. But the MiG-29 was designed with the idea of that happening.

 

Remember the MiG was meant for rough and tough conditions, so it cannot always be maintained properly. These conditions were heavily considered in design, the HDD is a redundancy for when the HUD fails.

[fitness88]

Interesting reading:

 

https://books.google.ca/books?id=NZhENgENhEQC&pg=RA1-SA1-PA4&lpg=RA1-SA1-PA4&dq=understanding+mig-29+fuel+system&source=bl&ots=8K-R80zTBD&sig=rncEDj_3GtNJMyo3Z_PkNMzoC3w&hl=en&ei=hY8ATeGNHda6nAeL9aXlDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result#v=onepage&q&f=true

[AussieGhost789]

If all the MFD does is repeat the HUD, then the MFD becomes more of a Heads-Down-Heads-Up-Display. Since the front dash already does this job...

 

Well, that's why it's called a Heads Down Display :P

[Airmage]

This one seems to have TAKT switch available, and it looks like an old version:

 

http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/fighter/mig29/mig29-15.jpg

[Dudikoff]

I dont think so in DCS have 3 Mig Models MiG 29A MiG29G and MiG29S I kow the 29A and Gdont have IFF and data link but the Mig 29S HAVE data link so the mfd isnt hud repeater only.

 

AFAIK, the Soviet (and apparently WP) MiG-29 9.12A also had a Lazur-M datalink, but the data is not presented on the MFD like on the Su-27, but on the HUD and it only contains the assigned target data from the GCI (and this is not present in DCSW). See e.g. this post.

 

The early MiG-29 variants could only serve as a short range point defense fighter which would intercept the assigned target (and perhaps some target of opportunity after that) due to its limited armament, radar and fuel quantities so there was really no point in installing a complex datalink system like on the Su-27.

 

According to some sources, a more advanced datalink was planned at some point on the Soviet variants (hence the TAKT switch), but was never implemented, although I don't know if those few 9.13S got something more advanced in the end.

Edited January 26, 2016 by Dudikoff

[ShuRugal]

To me it suggests that the HUD was prone to failure IRL.

 

I would not quite put it up to that. But the MiG-29 was designed with the idea of that happening.

 

Remember the MiG was meant for rough and tough conditions, so it cannot always be maintained properly. These conditions were heavily considered in design, the HDD is a redundancy for when the HUD fails.

 

 

If the HUD fails, the HDD showing the HUD info is moderately pointless. All of that information is already available on the gauges (where you can get it in more detail), with the exception of radar data. It would make more sense for that display to be dedicated to showing detailed radar/targeting data, without the clutter of things like your own flight parameters and CCIP cues.

[Airmage]

Is there no MiG29S pilot available to ask? :helpsmilie:

[steve65]

If the HUD fails, the HDD showing the HUD info is moderately pointless. All of that information is already available on the gauges (where you can get it in more detail), with the exception of radar data. It would make more sense for that display to be dedicated to showing detailed radar/targeting data, without the clutter of things like your own flight parameters and CCIP cues.

 

I agree ShuRugal but since that's how the mig -29 radar works is thru the HUD wouldn't that be the most logical to place that on a HDD granted you don't need all your flight data but if you lose the HUD at least you still have radar info on the HDD and can still target other planes.

[ShuRugal]

I agree ShuRugal but since that's how the mig -29 radar works is thru the HUD wouldn't that be the most logical to place that on a HDD granted you don't need all your flight data but if you lose the HUD at least you still have radar info on the HDD and can still target other planes.

 

I'm not convinced that the quick reference shown on the HUD is the only information that the real thing can give its pilot. It makes much more sense for the HDD to offer a picture like the F-15, with detailed information about target range, aspect, speed, and altitude, or like the Su-27, showing detail TWS picture combined with GCI/AWACS picture.

[TheFurNinja]

I'm not convinced that the quick reference shown on the HUD is the only information that the real thing can give its pilot. It makes much more sense for the HDD to offer a picture like the F-15, with detailed information about target range, aspect, speed, and altitude, or like the Su-27, showing detail TWS picture combined with GCI/AWACS picture.

Ive only seen the HDD function as a repeater in any footage I watch.

 

Also I have seen the Su-27/33 HDD function as a repeater too.

 

MiG-29 Trainer HDD. Look from 2:20 onwards.

 

From the Polish AF. Look at 2:28

Edited January 27, 2016 by TheFurNinja

[ShuRugal]

Wow, that is fantastically silly.

[Dudikoff]

It makes much more sense for the HDD to offer a picture like the F-15, with detailed information about target range, aspect, speed, and altitude, or like the Su-27, showing detail TWS picture combined with GCI/AWACS picture.

 

There's really no reason for it to have a detailed picture. Very limited fuel load for those two thirsty engines, poor radar and only two BVR missiles make it pretty much suitable only for intercepting a single target (not far from its base) assigned by the GCI (and in the best case some targets of opportunity with those Archers) and running back. The GCI Lazur-M link can provide information like the target aspect, speed and altitude on the HUD IIRC.

[TheFurNinja]

Wow, that is fantastically silly.

 

It's actually a really smart move. As in the rough tough conditions of the battlefield things can get hairy fast and nobody may have time or even the training to properly maintain the plane.

 

This heavily influenced Russian design. You can see it reflected in many areas of Russian aircraft philosophy. Their idea of "Murphy's Law" combined with the fact that Russia might not reliably be able to upkeep their aircraft in a desperate and strained war against all of NATO. In these conditions Russia might not have time to train personnel well enough on a strategic level.

 

On a tactical level it just might be too hectic on the front-lines to wait around and maintain the plane. The MiG-29 would likely be running short range CAP and Point-Intercept, landing and taking off constantly to meet a new threat. No time to give a few hours to check the plane, just go.

 

And in the case of a break in the action: a plane as simple as the MiG would be quite easy to maintain and run diagnostics on.

 

There's really no reason for it to have a detailed picture. Very limited fuel load for those two thirsty engines, poor radar and only two BVR missiles make it pretty much suitable only for intercepting a single target (not far from its base) assigned by the GCI (and in the best case some targets of opportunity with those Archers) and running back. The GCI Lazur-M link can provide information like the target aspect, speed and altitude on the HUD IIRC.

+1 this

Edited January 27, 2016 by TheFurNinja

[karambiatos]

I have one question.

 

What the hell is up with the refresh rate on that screen?

[RoflSeal]

I have one question.

 

What the hell is up with the refresh rate on that screen?

 

Probably something to do with the phase difference between the refresh rate of the camera and the HDD

[fitness88]

If the plan is to keep the Mig-29s HDD as is then hopefully they will have the Waypoint indicator up and running on the next patch. I really don't like the not knowing at a glance which waypoint # I'm heading to.

[Shaman]

It's actually a really smart move. As in the rough tough conditions of the battlefield things can get hairy fast and nobody may have time or even the training to properly maintain the plane.

 

True. Redundancy is aerospace log. rule #1: 'one is none, two is one'

 

Def: "the inclusion of extra components that are not strictly necessary to functioning, in case of failure in other components.",

"the duplication of critical components or functions of a system with the intention of increasing reliability"

Edited January 28, 2016 by Shaman

[blkspade]

I have one question.

 

What the hell is up with the refresh rate on that screen?

 

LOL, have you never seen a camera pointed at a CRT before?

[karambiatos]

LOL, have you never seen a camera pointed at a CRT before?

Yeah i have, but usually you can see the refresh rate being much faster, and not like half a hertz.

[blkspade]

Yeah i have, but usually you can see the refresh rate being much faster, and not like half a hertz.

 

You know I hadn't actually looked at it before replying. Maybe they have a really low refresh rate to save on power.