R-27T on center pylon

[plug pray]

I still really believe that in our airforce it could have been done without any reason.

[Kusch]

The 36T infrared seeker was developed in the 1980s for the R-27T/T1 (AA-10B Alamo) missile facilitating front sector launches. Advanced version of the seeker has been placed in the current missile version in production, the R-27TE (AA-10D Alamo). The Mysl helmet sight system has been developed to make engagement of IR targets easier.

 

PS;

[504 Wolverine]

Could the ET on the rear centre pylon be some evidence that the ET does infact have datalink like the ER as first thought? :confused:

 

This new evidence needs some investigation. :detective_2:

[GGTharos]

Geophizika was responsible for the 36T IR seeker for the R-27T > air-to-air ... it can be fired in lock-on-after-launch (LOAL) mode.

Er, no, it cannot.

 

It's a lock before launch dogfighting seeker. There's no missile out there (that I know of anyway) that has a LOAL capability and uses a reticle seeker. Everything that uses LOAL is FPA-based.

 

 

In the Russian forum it has been suggested that this was a 'flyout' aircraft and the missiles were fitted to it for transportation, not for firing. Are you guys thinking at all? The flanker's own fuse hides the top half hemisphere of the FOV ... you'd have to be nose-up with respect to target to launch this thing (or in particular, it would have to be under your nose). What sort of a silly arrangement is that? It might cause you to lose sight of the target, and no pilot's gonna go for that. The rear-mounted missile is even worse: the target would have to be -right- of your nose, and who knows how much noise the seeker will get from the fuse alone (thus making IRCM more effective).

[Pilotasso]

thank YOU! :D Case solved.

[plug pray]

Tharos, of course it's not used from the center pylons(been discussed longago). Just that was the question, how come the missile was there..)) So, as chizh said, it is either transportation, or some kind of an airshow when nobody cares about armament placing, or some similar reason.

[Kusch]

"R-27T posiada mieszany uklad kierowania. Na pierwszym odcinku lotu funkcjonuje autonomiczny układ kierowania zaprogramowany przez pokładowy uklad kierowania, moze byc korygowany komendami radiowymi. W drugim odcinku lotu R-27T wykorzystuje metode biernego samonaprowadzania."

 

Nie jest to taki sam uklad jak posiada np AIM-120, ktory moze dostac uaktualnienie z innego zrodla. Chodzi o to ze R-27T nie musi najpierw uchwycic celu przez swoja glowice. Mozna to porownac do AIM-9, ktory moze byc odpalony albo przez uchwycenie celu przez swoja glowice lub przez wskazanie celu dla glowicy przez radar pokladowy.

 

Moze im to ktos wyjasnic? (Who translate?)

[Groove]

[Kusch]

[Shaman]

"R-27T posiada mieszany uklad kierowania. Na pierwszym odcinku lotu funkcjonuje autonomiczny układ kierowania zaprogramowany przez pokładowy uklad kierowania, moze byc korygowany komendami radiowymi. W drugim odcinku lotu R-27T wykorzystuje metode biernego samonaprowadzania."

 

Nie jest to taki sam uklad jak posiada np AIM-120, ktory moze dostac uaktualnienie z innego zrodla. Chodzi o to ze R-27T nie musi najpierw uchwycic celu przez swoja glowice. Mozna to porownac do AIM-9, ktory moze byc odpalony albo przez uchwycenie celu przez swoja glowice lub przez wskazanie celu dla glowicy przez radar pokladowy.

 

Moze im to ktos wyjasnic? (Who translate?)

 

R-27T uses mixed guidance systems.

On first stage of flight it uses autonomous guidance & control system which is pre-programmed by aircraft's onboard guidance & control system before launch; after launch program still can be updated with radio commands.

On second stage of flight missile switches to own passive guidance system.

 

It's not the same system which is known f.e. on AIM-120, which can receive updates from other sources.

R-27T doesn't need to acquire it's target with its own passive guidance system before launch. It's comperable to AIM-9 which can be launch either by acquiring its target by own passive guidance system or by being told by aircraft's onboard radar software where the target is.

 

Rough translation :)

[Kula66]

Are you guys thinking at all? The flanker's own fuse hides the top half hemisphere of the FOV ... you'd have to be nose-up with respect to target to launch this thing (or in particular, it would have to be under your nose). What sort of a silly arrangement is that? It might cause you to lose sight of the target, and no pilot's gonna go for that. The rear-mounted missile is even worse: the target would have to be -right- of your nose, and who knows how much noise the seeker will get from the fuse alone (thus making IRCM more effective).

 

Well it wouldn't need a good FOV IF it was LOAL ...

[plug pray]

where is that info from , kusch?

[Shaman]

Originally Posted by GGTharos

Are you guys thinking at all? The flanker's own fuse hides the top half hemisphere of the FOV ... you'd have to be nose-up with respect to target to launch this thing (or in particular, it would have to be under your nose).

GGTharos, since when you understand R-27 as dogfight missile?

[Kusch]

where is that info from ' date=' kusch?[/quote']

 

 

"Uzbrojenie ZSRR i Rosji 1945-2000"

M. Mikolajczuk, J. Gruszczynski

 

And other...

[GGTharos]

It wouldn'tneed a good FoV if it was LOAL, and it's LOAL because it has to be LOAL to be a BVR missile?

 

Faulty logic.

 

The R-27T/ET is NOT a BVR weapon, unless you're shooting at something like an SR-71 (don't worry, the missile won't reach it anyway)

 

The thing uses a dogfighting seeker, and dogfighting seekers are optimized to work only for a short time due to cooling restraints (as compared with BVR radar guided missiles)

 

Once that missile flies for a given amount of time, the seeker can no longer cool itself and becomes useless.

[GGTharos]

GGTharos, since when you understand R-27 as dogfight missile?

 

Since it had a dogfighting seeker installed on it?

[Kusch]

AIM-4 Falcon, tez mial "dogfighting seeker" a mimo to do dogfightu sie zupelnie nie nadawal :-)

 

Once that missile flies for a given amount of time, the seeker can no longer cool itself and becomes useless

 

Range AIM-9X = 40km, hmm Raytheon lie :-)

[Pilotasso]

R-27T uses mixed guidance systems.

R-27T doesn't need to acquire it's target with its own passive guidance system before launch. It's comperable to AIM-9 which can be launch either by acquiring its target by own passive guidance system or by being told by aircraft's onboard radar software where the target is.

 

Rough translation :)

 

your referring to radar slaving and cage/uncage missiles, both methods have the missile launched with their targets already aquired.

[GGTharos]

AIM-4 Falcon, tez mial "dogfighting seeker" a mimo to do dogfightu sie zupelnie nie nadawal :-)

 

 

 

Range AIM-9X = 40km, hmm Raytheon lie :-)

 

Real pilot quote: If it goes ummm [hesitation] something like 10nm, it's not being cooled any longer (I doubt he wanted to give me the real range at this point)

 

Yeah, you know manufactureres lie ... in a way :P

 

AIM-4 wasn't useful for much at all ... it's only use was to shoot down bombers - in a fighter, you could lose one with just a 4g turn.

[Kula66]

It wouldn'tneed a good FoV if it was LOAL, and it's LOAL because it has to be LOAL to be a BVR missile?

 

Faulty logic.

 

No you missed the point ... it gets mounted where there is a poor field of view, why? Because it doesn't need a good FOV because its LOAL ... hence its a BVr missile.

 

Sorry if I confused you ... ;)

[Force_Feedback]

Array of attack ranges when calculated by weapon control system, in accordance to attack situation. Target H= 0-10 km

 

R-27ET1

 

From 2-52.5 km LA range when targeted from the front hemisphere 0.7-12.5km in rear hemisphere.

 

-Su-27S manual, page 129

 

 

So, you can see past 50km with your Eyballs Mk.1 ?

[GGTharos]

No you missed the point ... it gets mounted where there is a poor field of view, why? Because it doesn't need a good FOV because its LOAL ... hence its a BVr missile.

 

Sorry if I confused you ... ;)

 

Faulty logic. ;)

 

More likely: It's mounted there because it's convenient for transport ... aka will never be launched from that pylon. KISS typically works.

[Kula66]

Surely thats what you have Il-76s for ... transport.

 

KISS ... so the simple answer is I carries the missile but can't use it ... surely the simple answer is it carries the missile there are uses it from there!

[GGTharos]

Wrong. The A-10 used to carry 3 mavs on a rack it couldn't launch all three from ... for transport. While the problem has since been corrected, fact is that missiles DO get mounted on aircraft purely for transport purpose.

 

An IL-76 is a rather expensive way to transport one fighterload of missiles.

 

The simple answer is that when you use a seeker designed for dogfighting, you do the best to not obscure its view ;)

Not to mention that there's no datalink signal sent to the T/ET after launch (as per operator's manual). This isn't new material, in fact it is what trumped the whole 'T/ET is a BVR missile' fad.

 

The Su-27SK employment manual also gives you some ideas as to the engagement ranges of these weapons - those aren't rocket limitations, they're -seeker- limitations.

[Kenan]

Surely thats what you have Il-76s for ... transport.

 

KISS ... so the simple answer is I carries the missile but can't use it ... surely the simple answer is it carries the missile there are uses it from there!

 

Correct. Plain and simple. We have several photos of RL Flanker jets carring these underbelly. And these are not airshow or display photos, rather of a service jets doing their regular flights.

 

The conclusion:

 

Su-27S can deploy more then 2 ET missiles.

 

ET camp wins the round by a knockout!

Anti ET-camp is rushed to the hospital!