LGB handling - limitations

[domini99]

First test made by CaptSmiley was with AI JTAC on ground lasing target.

 

You can't do it yet, but once we get INS input, enter target coordinates into PCN, and perform CCRP release on target.

This is what I'm waiting for, as a hog driver I'd love to work together with a Mirage, my TGP beautifully outputs coordinates my Mirage wingman could enter, and he might be able to get in a position my hog won't reach (like 40k feet) and drop the bomb while I guide it for him while flying in a safe position.

 

I see this as a possible way to take out medium range SAM's

[jojo]

This procedure is indeed not really useful. That's why I think that the primary method to drop LGBs with the M2000 will be to utilize the INS to get a target mark, so you don't have to dive to pick them up.

 

Like Deezle said:

 

Even with INS WPT you have to dive to perform radar ranging. Look at video link on one of my previous post...

[domini99]

Even with INS WPT you have to dive to perform radar ranging. Look at video link on one of my previous post...

Yeah, but it's less dramatic than without INS WPT

[TomCatMucDe]

The way I think I'll use them is from medium altitude, just like you would do with an A-10C.

The different is the Mirage is much faster, allowing to engage a target with a longer reach than with an A-10C (go fast, drop and turn away).

 

So it will be useful to engage *some* targets the A-10C can't reach, but not all... Again this is not a do-it-all wonder-SEAD aircraft.

 

Well, at certain extent yes. But you could also do this kind of buddy lasing with 2 A10C. You don't have the speed but you can turn back from quite far. The speed advantage improving your standoff range wouldnt be that big.

[QuiGon]

Even with INS WPT you have to dive to perform radar ranging. Look at video link on one of my previous post...

 

Why? The INS should have all the information needed: own position and target position.

 

(Sorry, but I can't really gather anything from the video)

[VTJS17_Fire]

It's the same in the A-10C: If you use drop a LGB, then you (should) wait until 10-20 seconds before impact before you turn on the laser. If you drop from high altitude the bomb will already be in the air at that point.

 

That's the procedure for your own designated target.

 

If you want to find and track another laser reflection, you have to enter LST mode (IIRC) first to track the designated laser reflection. Otherwise, you don't know if you're in range and not to far off the glidepath (azimuth). And: You can't (visually) prove, if you're tracking the correct target (except with target coordinates and data link).

 

So, in the Mirage isn't a hint in the HUD, to see the target?

 

 

regards,

Fire

[QuiGon]

That's the procedure for your own designated target.

 

If you want to find and track another laser reflection, you have to enter LST mode (IIRC) first to track the designated laser reflection. Otherwise, you don't know if you're in range and not to far off the glidepath (azimuth). And: You can't (visually) prove, if you're tracking the correct target (except with target coordinates and data link).

 

So, in the Mirage isn't a hint in the HUD, to see the target?

 

 

regards,

Fire

 

You (meaning your TGP) don't have to find the laser reflection in order to drop a LGB on it. Only the bomb (it's seeker) needs to find it. You can use your TGP to find the laser, but that is optional. It only makes it easier, but is not necessary, at least IRL. I'm not quite sure how it behaves in DCS. Haven't done it in a while.

 

But since the Mirage doesn't have a TGP (or any kind of laser tracker) it can't detect the laser anyways. So you have to drop it without knowing if the laser is there.

[jojo]

Why? The INS should have all the information needed: own position and target position.

 

(Sorry, but I can't really gather anything from the video)

 

Because you drop it like it's Mk-82.

 

The system is designed to drop dumb bomb.

IRL you're a rock star if your dumb bombs hit within 10m.

 

Your INS system can have up to 15m error, and on top of that there is INS drift.

 

I'm will do a post about CCRP/ CCPL and ask for it to be sticky.

 

I'm tired to repeat myself and post the same videos over and over.

 

M-2000C CCRP IS NOT US (or M-2000D) CCRP, YOU CAN'T DO LEVEL BOMBING ABOVE THE CLOUDS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[QuiGon]

Because you drop it like it's Mk-82.

 

The system is designed to drop dumb bomb.

IRL you're a rock star if your dumb bombs hit within 10m.

 

Your INS system can have up to 15m error, and on top of that there is INS drift.

 

I'm will do a post about CCRP/ CCPL and ask for it to be sticky.

 

I'm tired to repeat myself and post the same videos over and over.

 

M-2000C CCRP IS NOT US (or M-2000D) CCRP, YOU CAN'T DO LEVEL BOMBING ABOVE THE CLOUDS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

So, if I understand correrctly, there is an artificial restriction on the Mirage's CCRP-system that prohibits you from just dropping bombs on given coordinates, even though it would be totally possible since it has all the necessary information to do blind CCRP?

[TomCatMucDe]

So, if I understand correrctly, there is an artificial restriction on the Mirage's CCRP-system that prohibits you from just dropping bombs on given coordinates, even though it would be totally possible since it has all the necessary information to do blind CCRP?

 

Lets put it this way, an INS point is not a SPI point like on A10C. It is only for naviation but it cant be taken by the CCRP computer to calculate a release time. You have to lock the ground position by yourself.

 

Besides, and maybe I am wrong here, the INS will not know the exact altitude where your target is sitting, by diving to it and locking it, the radar will measure the slant range and you will have a more or less acurate release point.

[QuiGon]

Lets put it this way, an INS point is not a SPI point like on A10C. It is only for naviation but it cant be taken by the CCRP computer to calculate a release time. You have to lock the ground position by yourself.

 

Besides, and maybe I am wrong here, the INS will not know the exact altitude where your target is sitting, by diving to it and locking it, the radar will measure the slant range and you will have a more or less acurate release point.

 

Alright, I guess I can see the problem now. The issue is not the system in general (CRRP wih INS) but how it is implemented on the Mirage 2000C which does not allow blind bomb drops on INS coordinates.

[TomCatMucDe]

That s why I see the M2000C as a pure fighter and opportunistically a bomber. Most people will end up doing intercepts and CAPs. Maybe runway bombing is different cause it s the only one capable to do thatin DCS once the BAP-100 are there

[jojo]

In the real aircraft the INS system is not considered accurate enough to do blind bombing.

So you have to aim visually.

 

Mirage 2000D on the other hand is another beast, with two INS and embedded GPS.

It can perform all kinds of bombing in blind mode...just designed to do it.

[jojo]

That s why I see the M2000C as a pure fighter and opportunistically a bomber.

 

:thumbup:

 

At the height of its career, M-2000C used to spend 80% of their training in AA role.

 

It's bit like MiG 29, but the system is more flexible to use, and you can reprogram Nav in flight. Useful for CAS.

[ckelly14]

In the real aircraft the INS system is not considered accurate enough to do blind bombing.

So you have to aim visually.

 

Mirage 2000D on the other hand is another beast, with two INS and embedded GPS.

It can perform all kinds of bombing in blind mode...just designed to do it.

 

Can I get one of these? :)

[Chrinik]

That s why I see the M2000C as a pure fighter and opportunistically a bomber. Most people will end up doing intercepts and CAPs. Maybe runway bombing is different cause it s the only one capable to do thatin DCS once the BAP-100 are there

 

The MiG-21 and FC3 Soviet/Russian aircraft have anti-runway bombs and so far, noone´s used them.

[TomCatMucDe]

The MiG-21 and FC3 Soviet/Russian aircraft have anti-runway bombs and so far, noone´s used them.

 

 

I personally don't care about FC3 stuff. Which bomb is anti runway bomb of the 21?

 

And the idea is not to use them in multiplayer, there would be no multiplayer if people start bombing runways when there is no one yet connected and make it impossible for people to join and take off. But look at the missions in BMS for example. It adds a strategic dimension to reduce the sortie of the enemy when you bomb his runway. In MP it can be used only in campaigns like blue flag for example. But we need real runway concrete penetrating bombs. As far as I know, we don't have them yet

[gospadin]

I personally don't care about FC3 stuff. Which bomb is anti runway bomb of the 21?

 

And the idea is not to use them in multiplayer, there would be no multiplayer if people start bombing runways when there is no one yet connected and make it impossible for people to join and take off. But look at the missions in BMS for example. It adds a strategic dimension to reduce the sortie of the enemy when you bomb his runway. In MP it can be used only in campaigns like blue flag for example. But we need real runway concrete penetrating bombs. As far as I know, we don't have them yet

 

Most good MP missions also have a non-trivial amount of defensive SAMs.

 

I think it would be useful.

 

For the MiG-21bis, they have the BetAB-500ShP, a concrete penetration bomb, useful for damaging runways.

[domini99]

Most good MP missions also have a non-trivial amount of defensive SAMs.

 

I think it would be useful.

 

For the MiG-21bis, they have the BetAB-500ShP, a concrete penetration bomb, useful for damaging runways.

DCS logic:

 

Some rebel group is holding a camp in the middle of a forest, but they somehow got their hands on 3 SA-6 sites, a couple SA-3's 10 SA-8's, several shilka's, couple strelas and over 20 manpads.......

...... And an early warning system.

 

 

"GG A-10 pilots, go kill 'm!"

[QuiGon]

DCS logic:

 

Some rebel group is holding a camp in the middle of a forest, but they somehow got their hands on 3 SA-6 sites, a couple SA-3's 10 SA-8's, several shilka's, couple strelas and over 20 manpads.......

...... And an early warning system.

 

 

"GG A-10 pilots, go kill 'm!"

 

You made my day Sir :megalol:

 

Although it's actually rather sad than funny :(

The game itself is so much focused on realism, but most missions on public MP servers are just ridiculous.

[PiedDroit]

The game itself is so much focused on realism, but most missions on public MP servers are just ridiculous.

They have to be due to the also unrealistic number of A/C in the air. Just like if the entire US fleet is going after those poor guys day after day. :lol:

Coop missions are less extreme.