1.5.3.51218 RWR issue

[MoGas]

It seems that I get no launch warning from SAHR Missiles in SP and MP, the lock up warning is there!

 

EDIT: If the AIM-120`s gets active on you, the only way to see it is with (M) symbole on the RWR, no different sound on the RWR either.

Edited March 15, 2016 by MoGas

[AussieGhost789]

I have heard launch warnings but it only occurs when an AIM-120 is fired at me from relatively close range, and even then it doesn't always go off.

 

I have no solid numbers about in what conditions it does or doesn't work, but I tried it with R-27's, R-77's (to see if it was only with actives) and even IR missiles (to see if it was the A-10 style MWS). In none of those cases did I get a launch warning. I only ever heard the warning with an AMRAAM launched from close range, and even then it only happens some of the time.

 

So what is, or is supposed to be, producing the launch warnings? Is it the RWR or the D2M thing? Someone said to me that the M2000C's RWR can't actually detect launches in the way that the other relatively modern RWR's can. Is this the case? If so, then it would be the D2M detecting the launch, right?

 

Either way, I don't recall reading a great deal about the RWR in any patch notes, so I'm going to assume that aspect is still majorly WIP and not working as intended.

[Aginor]

I think there might also be something wrong with the lock warning, I am not sure and did not have the time to reproduce yet

 

I was fighting a AI MiG-21 in the most recent OpenBeta (identical to the rlease one now) on saturday, and after shooting a R3R at me head on, when we both were starting to turn to face each other again I constantly heard a lock warning tone although the MiG was pointing away from me. I am almost sure it wasn't a overG tone and I think I also had it on the RWR.

 

I tried to save the track but it didn't work because tracks are broken. But I looked out of the window and saw the MiG flying not into my direction.

 

Perhaps there is something wrong with the "refresh rate" of the RWR, that could explain hearing a tone too late (probably never) or for too long.

[boomerang10]

It doesn't have the ability to see launches like the A-10 can with its IR sensors.

 

You won't get a launch warning. You'll only get warnings when someone has you locked or when a missile is active on you.

[AussieGhost789]

It doesn't have the ability to see launches like the A-10 can with its IR sensors.

 

You won't get a launch warning. You'll only get warnings when someone has you locked or when a missile is active on you.

 

That's the thing, you do get some kind of launch warning, but only from an AMRAAM. It's not the same tone you get when you've been locked by an aircraft or ground threat. Also, last I read, Zeus said they were going to implement the MWS that sits on the Magic's pylons, the thing that the D2M switch activates. I know that whether or not that was going to be implemented was the topic of discussion for some time, but last I read they said they were adding it.

[Voodooflies]

It doesn't have the ability to see launches like the A-10 can with its IR sensors.

 

You won't get a launch warning. You'll only get warnings when someone has you locked or when a missile is active on you.

 

D2M or DDM stands for "Détecteur de Départ Missile" or "Missile Launch Detector". This feature may not be in the real french M2K but as far as I know Zeus was okay to put it in the sim as it match other version of the M2K (each country has their own little things).

 

That said, the D2M/DDM should be able to detect any missile launches within the limits, it should detect the IR emission coming out the missile as it burns. It may be WIP.

 

We're talking about the DA I believe, which stands for "Détecteur d'Alerte", or "Alert Detector" which is linked to the Serval, mostly known as the RWR.

 

There's an issue for sure as most missiles appear to be stealthy, no matter what fox 1 or fox 3 types.

[Azrayen]

D2M or DDM stands for "Détecteur de Départ Missile" or "Missile Launch Detector".

The usual acronym in english is MLWS (Missile Launch Warning System).

 

 

This feature may not be in the real french M2K but as far as I know Zeus was okay to put it in the sim as it match other version of the M2K (each country has their own little things).

It's not about countries. French M2Ks got that, but it's not usually carried by the C because of limited interest; it's rather used on the mud-movers versions of the M2K: the D and N. But anyway, the C should be MLWS able (with the addition of specific pylons), so Razbam decided to implement it (later).

 

Anyway, regarding the current missile alert, we shouldn't expect something magic. The RWR is capable of managing a number of signals it detects and classify.

If the RWR does not recognize a signal, it won't alert.

If the radar of the opponent doesn't change its wavelenght/form between STT and STT+missile guidance (or if the changes are unknown, or too subtle to be detected), then your RWR can only guess (e.g.: I receive this power, so the radar/opponent should be at ~ this distance, so I assume it's within missile range to shoot at me, so I will display an estimated alert as I have no way to be sure if a missile is in the air or not).

Old radar+fox 1 systems are "easy" to detect, when the radar emits in continuous wave. But as this is easy to detect, radar and missile makers worked to make better systems, harder to detect. The "LO" generation of fighter (and the M-2000C) should probably benefit from such improvments.

 

I haven't tested the M-2000C on that topic for quite some time, above are only generic remarks.

 

++

Az'

Edited March 16, 2016 by Azrayen

[mattebubben]

the problem is not really that the Mirage 2000 RWR is worse then others.

 

its that the FC-3 aircraft use a very simplistic system when it comes to rwr.

 

But Razbam seem to be more interested in a more complex system.

 

And as such we need to be patient and wait to see what they come up with.

 

And not just say its wrong / Not realistic because thats not how the FC3 airplanes work.

 

And i fly the Mirage 2000 multiplayer and aslong as ur carefull / a bit paranoid with the radar lock warning you should be ok.

 

Since with the RWR you can tell direction aswell as well if they are far or close.

 

So for me i tend to use those estimates to decide my action.

 

If somone if further away but has had me hard locked for more then 5-6 sec i tend to go evasive.

 

And if somone is mid-close and have me hardlocked for 2-3 sec i go evasive.

 

And if they are very close i go evasive as soon as i am locked up.

 

And that has worked very well for me so far.

 

And i tend to avoid head on attacks (if the opponent locks me up)

 

since he is likely to have an advantage in that scenario.

 

And no matter the aircraft you want to avoid the areas were the enemy has the advantage.

 

Id rather go evasive and find out i did not need to then not go evasive and find out i should have.

Edited March 16, 2016 by mattebubben