Scale of DCS space, airfield capacity, etc.

[Bearfoot]

Are there any airfields in the either the Caucasus or the NTTR map that can handle a basic assault helicopter company? For a Vietnam-era one, that would be a weapons platoon of 8-10 gunships and two lift platoons of 8-10 slicks, plus maybe an admin section. That means 24-30 helicopters, at the very least.

 

If we want all aircraft to be non-static and available for on ramp cold starts, it seems that the answer is "no".

 

I can create an ad hoc one by stringing a bunch of FARPS together, but there is an excessive waste of space due to the FARP layout.

 

Am I missing something? Is DCS World not designed to simulate this size of engagements?

 

I am open to any suggestions/advice/corrections!

[kazereal]

Am I missing something? Is DCS World not designed to simulate this size of engagements?

 

You are actually asking two very different questions there.

 

Black Sea map airfields are based on airfields at those locations. Get map for Nevada and check those airfields.

 

If your computer can run that size engagement is entirely different matter..

[Bearfoot]

You are actually asking two very different questions there.

 

Black Sea map airfields are based on airfields at those locations. Get map for Nevada and check those airfields.

 

If your computer can run that size engagement is entirely different matter..

 

I'm afraid that you have misinterpreted my post (which may be entirely due to me not writing/phrasing it more clearly).

 

I have both maps.

 

I have not yet been able to find an airfield that can hold that many aircraft in the simulation on either map.

 

Using the multiple-FARP approach, I have been able to run engagements of the specified size on my machine without any issue.

 

What you perceived as the second very different question was actually a different perspective on the first: i.e., if the DCS world was never envisioned to carry out engagements with 30+ aircraft taking off from the same airfield, it would make sense not to simulate that amount capacity for the airfield. I imagine that, in RL the airfields in NTTR would easily accommodate 30+ operational aircraft. But not, apparently, in DCS. Correct?

 

You are right, of course, that whether or not DCS will actually be able to run with engagements of 30+ aircraft on one side is a different question. I am not asking that. I know the answer to that. It is, for, me: "yes"!

[kazereal]

I imagine that, in RL the airfields in NTTR would easily accommodate 30+ operational aircraft. But not, apparently, in DCS. Correct?

 

I do not know if your imagination is correct or not, but 30+ might include both ramp and parking. DCS does not have way to pull helicopters from hangars with a tractor like you might need in RL.

 

Also having engagement of 30+ might include two or more bases at close distance, I'm not that familiar what was actually used.

[Bearfoot]

I do not know if your imagination is correct or not, but 30+ might include both ramp and parking. DCS does not have way to pull helicopters from hangars with a tractor like you might need in RL.

 

Also having engagement of 30+ might include two or more bases at close distance, I'm not that familiar what was actually used.

 

Pretty sure the capacity in RL is up there, 30+. As evidenced by, e.g. Red Flag operations at Nellis:

 

http://www.dreamlandresort.com/info/exercises.htm

[Bearfoot]

Ok, here are a source of some actual numbers:

 

[ame]http://nnsa.energy.gov/sites/default/files/nnsa/inlinefiles/usaf%202010.pdf[/ame]

 

and:

 

[ame]http://ebooks.aqppublishing.com/archive/base_guides/Nellis.pdf[/ame]

 

 

Relevant information:

 

• "two runways with ramp space for up to 300 aircraft"
  
• "aerial armada of up to 80 aircraft"
  

 

SOOOOOO, with that long detour/side-track out of the way, the question remains:

 

Am I missing anything regarding being able to place even 30 odd (let alone 300) non-static aircraft on the ramp in any of the airfields available in any of the DCS maps?

 

Thank you for any information, suggestions, or advice.

Edited April 13, 2016 by Bearfoot

[Eddie]

What type of aircraft are you trying to place? Nellis can easily take that many jets in DCS, but depending on the size of the aircraft in question, you can use all the slots. This is true both in DCS and in reality.

 

Helicopters only operate from the Jolly pad at the north eastern end of Nellis, and last I checked DCS matches this.

[Bearfoot]

What type of aircraft are you trying to place? Nellis can easily take that many jets in DCS, but depending on the size of the aircraft in question, you can use all the slots. This is true both in DCS and in reality.

 

Helicopters only operate from the Jolly pad at the north eastern end of Nellis, and last I checked DCS matches this.

 

Ah, OK. That makes sense. I am trying to place helicopters. Did not realize that helicopters had their own assigned spaces and could not take up fixed-wing spaces.

 

So, if I am looking for an airfield on either map that can handle 30+ helicopters on the ramp I am SOL?

[Kayos]

That's odd that you can't place helicopters on fixed-wing spaces.

I guess I've never tried it.

[Hyperion35]

I could have sworn that the Ka-50 can take off from runways. It's been a long time since I've played around with it, but I seem to remember that at least one of the training missions (which was on the Caucasus map) involved starting the Ka-50 in a space on the airfield that was similar to a fixed-wing space, then rolling out to the ramp, and then moving to the runway, and taking off on the runway.

 

Most likely that's limited to the Ka-50, since I think it's the only helicopter currently in DCS that can do a runway takeoff. I'm not even sure that it's possible to do what you want with a Ka-50, but that's probably the one that's most likely to be able to do what you want if it's at all possible.

[Kayos]

I just tried at Nellis and there are only 14 spots available to place Helicopters :(

[Kayos]

You can select runway as your position. Not sure if you can assign multiple helicopters to runway though. Let me check, brb

Nope, doesn't seem to let you.

Edited April 13, 2016 by Kayos

[Bearfoot]

I could have sworn that the Ka-50 can take off from runways. It's been a long time since I've played around with it, but I seem to remember that at least one of the training missions (which was on the Caucasus map) involved starting the Ka-50 in a space on the airfield that was similar to a fixed-wing space, then rolling out to the ramp, and then moving to the runway, and taking off on the runway.

 

Most likely that's limited to the Ka-50, since I think it's the only helicopter currently in DCS that can do a runway takeoff. I'm not even sure that it's possible to do what you want with a Ka-50, but that's probably the one that's most likely to be able to do what you want if it's at all possible.

 

I think the it depends on whether or not the helicopter has wheels or skids.

 

If it has wheels and the airfield has a runway, it will do a runway take-off, no matter what.

 

Which actually is another issue.

 

Try launching 8 Chinooks from an airport with only one runway. Forget about getting them all off before the sun sets ...

 

OTH, 8 Hueys get off fine, as they take off all simultaneously.

[Grimes]

Airbases on Nevada have designated helicopter spawns that are completely separated from fixed wing aircraft. At the moment I think McCarren has the most helicopter spawn points with it being in the 20s. As it is defined in DCS you can fit something like 260 F-15C sized aircraft at Nellis. On the Caucasus map there is no distinction, but spaces are limited due to the heavy use to hardened aircraft shelters making up a sizable portion of available spawn points. I'd think Maykop, Krymsk, Kobuleti, and maybe Sochi might have the most spawns available for helicopters. Just look for any base that has a long outdoor ramp area.

[Rangi]

It would be nice if we could place cold start (or hot) aircraft anywhere on the airfields. Just line them up on the taxiways or runways(elephant walk style).

[Bearfoot]

Airbases on Nevada have designated helicopter spawns that are completely separated from fixed wing aircraft. At the moment I think McCarren has the most helicopter spawn points with it being in the 20s. As it is defined in DCS you can fit something like 260 F-15C sized aircraft at Nellis. On the Caucasus map there is no distinction, but spaces are limited due to the heavy use to hardened aircraft shelters making up a sizable portion of available spawn points. I'd think Maykop, Krymsk, Kobuleti, and maybe Sochi might have the most spawns available for helicopters. Just look for any base that has a long outdoor ramp area.

 

Thanks for clearing that up!

 

I wish there was a way to pack in more helicopter spawn points in an airfield. The FARP's take up way too much space, a good third of which is not needed for this application. Was there not a single helipad mod floating around?

[IonIan11]

Number of parking spaces available to be used by helicopters in the mission editor:

 

 

Caucasus Map

Batumi: 10

Kobuleti: 26

Senaki-Kolkhi: 16

Kutaisi: 25

Tbilisi-Lochini: 70

Soganlug: 5

Vaziani: 19

Sukhumi-Babushara: 23

Gudauta: 10

Sochi-Adler: 41

Gelendzhik: 13

Novorossiysk: 16

Anapa-Vityazevo: 40

Krymsk: 30

Krasnodar-Center: 23

Krasnodar-Pashkovsky: 19

Maykop-Khanskaya: 57

Mineralnye Vody: 28

Nalchik: 15

Mozdok: 39

Beslan: 15

 

Nevada Map

McCarran International Airport: 12

Nellis AFB: 14

Creech AFB: 13

Groom Lake AFB: 4

 

 

It seems helicopters can only be placed on open parking spots, so airfields with large amounts of hardened aircraft shelters tend to limit their number (as Grimes stated). Regardless, it appears many airfields on the Caucasus map would suit your purpose just fine, including Tbilisi-Lochini, with support for an amazing 70 choppers! Sadly, none of the Nevada airfields can support that many. Nellis AFB has the most slots available at 14. Though I imagine you might be able to supplement that number with a few FARPs right next to the field.

 

Hope this helps!

Edited April 15, 2016 by IonIan11

[Bearfoot]

Number of parking spaces available to be used by helicopters in the mission editor:

 

 

Caucasus Map

Batumi: 10

Kobuleti: 26

Senaki-Kolkhi: 16

Kutaisi: 25

Tbilisi-Lochini: 70

Soganlug: 5

Vaziani: 19

Sukhumi-Babushara: 23

Gudauta: 10

Sochi-Adler: 41

Gelendzhik: 13

Novorossiysk: 16

Anapa-Vityazevo: 40

Krymsk: 30

Krasnodar-Center: 23

Krasnodar-Pashkovsky: 19

Maykop-Khanskaya: 57

Mineralnye Vody: 28

Nalchik: 15

Mozdok: 39

Beslan: 15

 

Nevada Map

McCarran International Airport: 12

Nellis AFB: 14

Creech AFB: 13

Groom Lake AFB: 4

 

 

It seems helicopters can only be placed on open parking spots, so airfields with large amounts of hardened aircraft shelters tend to limit their number. Regardless, it appears many airfields on the Caucasus map would suit your purpose just fine, including Tbilisi-Lochini, with support for an amazing 70 choppers! Sadly, none of the Nevada airfields can support that many. Nellis AFB has the most slots available at 14. Though I imagine you might be able to supplement that number with a few FARPs right next to the field.

 

Hope this helps!

 

Fantastic! Thank you for digging and compiling this info. REALLY appreciated!

[Aginor]

Yeah, that's cool! Thanks!

[Chrinik]

Am I missing something? Is DCS World not designed to simulate this size of engagements?

 

This sounds so strange.

DCS is "designed" to simulate all sorts of sizes of engagements.

 

But the Airfields tend not to be.

As has been said, you can´t stuff 40 choppers into a large hangar and pull them out as needed, they have to be ramp parked, and that limits space.

 

If the physical airbase doesn´t have the space, it simply doesn´t...it´s not like they made the airbases up, you can google-earth all of them.

 

Beslan really is this shitty concrete strip, not much room for 30+ choppers.