Oculus Rift CV1 and DK2 Side By Side Lens View

[VR-Hunter]

Found a side by side comparison video of CV1 and DK2.

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We see a great improvement over DK2 SDE.

[cichlidfan]

I didn't think this was still a question.

[Tricky11]

Is there really that much difference? I had the dk2 but still undecided between vive and cv1

[vicx]

Fluffy content of dubious technical merit. The differences in SDE are not that stark in practice.

 

I believe I could take a photo that shows SDE on any current HMD, however the basic premise in this video that SDE is imperceptible on the Cv1/Vive still holds.

 

On the subject of SDE (I am Vive owner), I can say that the only time I have ever noticed SDE is when an experience is loading and the image in the HMD freezes and becomes static. This means when you move your head the image doesn't change in the HMD - this make my eye focus on the pixels instead of on the world the way it normally would. Anything that looks like a static image in the HMD during an experience might also cause your eye to refocus BUT this has not happened to me.

 

Basically I believe that in practice on the Vive (and probably CV1) you could observe SDE but most of the time you don't because your eyes relax and track the world instead.

 

What is WAY more impressive for me going from the DK2 to the Vive(probably holds for CV1 too) is the reduction in chromatic aberation. This is way more impressive than the gains made on SDE or resolution.

 

One step backwards on the Vive/CV1 is the "god rays" ... yeah they aren't as bad as chromatic aberration BUT if they can reduce "god rays" for Vive2/CV2 it will be a big selling feature.

[montify]

One step backwards on the Vive/CV1 is the "god rays" ... yeah they aren't as bad as chromatic aberration BUT if they can reduce "god rays" for Vive2/CV2 it will be a big selling feature.

Remove the Facepad on the Vive and the goodrays are gone! ;)

[DerekSpeare]

I have a DK2 and demoed both the Vive and CV1 within the past two weeks (my reports on both are here in separate threads). What's in the video is as close to reality as possible without physically having the hardware in your hands. The SDE on the Vive is better than the DK2, but only marginally. The SDE on the CV1 is much better than the DK2. I have had a DK2 for 20 some months.

[322Sqn_Dusty]

Wow. Great splitscreen, very encouraging to keep an eye out for the CV Rift. I've had problems using my current DK2 but that was ATI related. Skipping the CV1 due the price.

[Vivoune]

I have a DK2 and demoed both the Vive and CV1 within the past two weeks (my reports on both are here in separate threads). What's in the video is as close to reality as possible without physically having the hardware in your hands. The SDE on the Vive is better than the DK2, but only marginally. The SDE on the CV1 is much better than the DK2. I have had a DK2 for 20 some months.

 

I believe that something went wrong with your Vive demo, either you've been handed an earlier version or they set it up completely wrong. People that do side by side comparison notice a small difference but nothing as extreme as you describe in term of SDE and everyone agrees both HMDs SDE is leagues ahead of the DK2.

 

 

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[/ame] Edited May 16, 2016 by Vivoune

[vicx]

Vivoune, Now we have fluffy content of dubious technical merit for the Vive to go with fluffy content of dubious technical merit for the Rift.

[Chivas]

Is there really that much difference? I had the dk2 but still undecided between vive and cv1

 

Google Toms Hardware, its has a recent very indepth review of the Rift/Vive. If your primarily a Fflight/Racing/Space simmer the Rifts custom displays, custom hybrid Fresnel optics, comfort, and ATW software might be the better choice. Flight sim modders like Flyinside have indicated this aswell. Cliffs of Dover is also implementing Rift support. If you prefer room scale VR, and can't wait for the Rift Touch controllers, get the Vive now. The Vive system is a very good choice, but if you buy the Rift, and wait for the Touch tracked controllers its likely to be a more refined total package. The only big "if" is how the consumer version of the Rifts dual camera constellations system stands up to the Vive dual laser tracking system. The Vive system will allow for larger room scale if the Rift system can't use extenders, or the Rift trackers don't have enough tracking depth, but that is yet to be determined.

[Vivoune]

Vivoune, Now we have fluffy content of dubious technical merit for the Vive to go with fluffy content of dubious technical merit for the Rift.

 

True :smartass:

 

Google Toms Hardware, its has a recent very indepth review of the Rift/Vive. If your primarily a Fflight/Racing/Space simmer the Rifts custom displays, custom hybrid Fresnel optics, comfort, and ATW software might be the better choice. Flight sim modders like Flyinside have indicated this aswell. Cliffs of Dover is also implementing Rift support. If you prefer room scale VR, and can't wait for the Rift Touch controllers, get the Vive now. The Vive system is a very good choice, but if you buy the Rift, and wait for the Touch tracked controllers its likely to be a more refined total package. The only big "if" is how the consumer version of the Rifts dual camera constellations system stands up to the Vive dual laser tracking system. The Vive system will allow for larger room scale if the Rift system can't use extenders, or the Rift trackers don't have enough tracking depth, but that is yet to be determined.

 

I'm sorry but I've yet to find a trend in any simulation's community (DCS, IL2, P3D, FSX etc) where people prefer one over the other. They both have their pros and cons but the "for seated experience get the OR, for roomscale get the Vive" opinion is imho ill-advised. Not to turn this thread into a comparison thread but:

 

-The OR has a slightly crisper image because of its slightly lower FOV, thus its slightly higher pixel density.

-The Vive having a slightly higher FOV offer a slightly more immersive experience.

-The Vive screen is brighter and offer more contrast than the OR, for many people, when in the cockpit, it actually makes them feel like being outside in the sun in a bright sunny day in comparison to the the OR more dim screens.

-Some say the OR is definitely the comfy one, others much prefer the Vive.

-No doubt the OR is the more refined product though in comparison to the Vive that still look a bit like a plastic prototype. Note that the OR's rigid strap system prevent some people from using it at all and that the fabric finish is a dust magnet that many are also worried is going to wear out fast.

-Both HMD suffer from the godray effect, but the OR is more affected by it, probably a trade-off of its lens type to reach a clearer image in comparison to the Vive's fresnel lenses that have a sweet spot.

-Vive's front camera makes for using custom cockpits or button boxes more easily while the Rift relies on a nose gap that let the light in.

-OR is a closed platform seeking exclusive titles. I believe the Vive being more open hardware and software-side will be a big plus in the simming world where tinkering with custom hardware/software is often mandatory.

 

To quote Tom's Hardware's article since you bring it up as a source:

 

"the [Oculus Rift's] narrower FoV and higher PPI (pixels per inch) resulting from its smaller displays means that even though both the Vive and Rift run at the same resolution, the Rift’s pixels are visibly a little smaller, resulting in a crisper image. Of course, the difference isn’t going to be that noticeable when you are in VR unless you are deliberately looking for it, and the Vive still has the advantage of a more immersive, bigger field of view and has no issues with light leaking in."

 

Both HMDs are a solid choice, regularly following what I can on VR I've yet to find recurrent unbiased testimonies of one being better at simming over the other, you simply won't go wrong with either. So fear not and get the one that appeals to you the most. ^^

Edited May 17, 2016 by Vivoune

[metalnwood]

-OR is a closed platform seeking exclusive titles. I believe the Vive being more open hardware and software-side will be a big plus in the simming world where tinkering with custom hardware/software is often mandatory.

 

/QUOTE]

 

When did that happen? I was working on an oculus app for a short while and didn't see anything that made it less open than the vive from a developers perspective.

 

If you are referring to that fact that software written for steamvr works with both then yes, steamvr supports more than one headset but it looks like there are no restrictions placed on developers doing stuff for the rift.

[Vivoune]

-OR is a closed platform seeking exclusive titles. I believe the Vive being more open hardware and software-side will be a big plus in the simming world where tinkering with custom hardware/software is often mandatory.

 

 

When did that happen? I was working on an oculus app for a short while and didn't see anything that made it less open than the vive from a developers perspective.

 

If you are referring to that fact that software written for steamvr works with both then yes, steamvr supports more than one headset but it looks like there are no restrictions placed on developers doing stuff for the rift.

 

You're right, I'm not aware of any problems developing for the Rift. but from a consumer standpoint the PC platform thrives on being open, the exclusivity and other shady business practices from Oculus to enforce their closed ecosystem concerns me and doesn't strike me as something healthy for VR nor simming.

 

The last thing I would want as an early adopter is for the VR market to grow into the same silly wars we're seeing in the console market. For that alone I'd rather support the company that openly thinks no VR content should be locked behind a specific platform, have its API freely available to consumers and competitors alike and which all developers can freely comment on not being held by any exclusivity clauses.

 

But that's ethics, it's a whole other debate, a tad off track from the SDE thread subject and doesn't render the rift's HMD any worse spec-wise. ^^'

Edited May 17, 2016 by Vivoune

[metalnwood]

But.. They dont lock you to their platform? Their API is freely available to consumers and competitors. In fact thats how steam VR can support oculus in the first place.

 

Remember, valve have steam only content as well. Valve/htc have the same issues so I am not sure I see your point exactly the same as you do.

 

Where is the exclusivity part? What example has any developer not been able to support a platform other than oculus? They dont even have to support oculus home if they have their own distribution methods.

[Vivoune]

But.. They dont lock you to their platform? Their API is freely available to consumers and competitors. In fact thats how steam VR can support oculus in the first place.

 

Remember, valve have steam only content as well. Valve/htc have the same issues so I am not sure I see your point exactly the same as you do.

 

Where is the exclusivity part? What example has any developer not been able to support a platform other than oculus? They dont even have to support oculus home if they have their own distribution methods.

 

We're not going to high-jack and debate this on this thread, you are free to search the internet, and investigate both constructors directions.

Edited May 17, 2016 by Vivoune

[Chivas]

True :smartass:

 

 

 

I'm sorry but I've yet to find a trend in any simulation's community (DCS, IL2, P3D, FSX etc) where people prefer one over the other. They both have their pros and cons but the "for seated experience get the OR, for roomscale get the Vive" opinion is imho ill-advised. Not to turn this thread into a comparison thread but:

 

-The OR has a slightly crisper image because of its slightly lower FOV, thus its slightly higher pixel density.

-The Vive having a slightly higher FOV offer a slightly more immersive experience.

-The Vive screen is brighter and offer more contrast than the OR, for many people, when in the cockpit, it actually makes them feel like being outside in the sun in a bright sunny day in comparison to the the OR more dim screens.

-Some say the OR is definitely the comfy one, others much prefer the Vive.

-No doubt the OR is the more refined product though in comparison to the Vive that still look a bit like a plastic prototype. Note that the OR's rigid strap system prevent some people from using it at all and that the fabric finish is a dust magnet that many are also worried is going to wear out fast.

-Both HMD suffer from the godray effect, but the OR is more affected by it, probably a trade-off of its lens type to reach a clearer image in comparison to the Vive's fresnel lenses that have a sweet spot.

-Vive's front camera makes for using custom cockpits or button boxes more easily while the Rift relies on a nose gap that let the light in.

-OR is a closed platform seeking exclusive titles. I believe the Vive being more open hardware and software-side will be a big plus in the simming world where tinkering with custom hardware/software is often mandatory.

 

To quote Tom's Hardware's article since you bring it up as a source:

 

"the [Oculus Rift's] narrower FoV and higher PPI (pixels per inch) resulting from its smaller displays means that even though both the Vive and Rift run at the same resolution, the Rift’s pixels are visibly a little smaller, resulting in a crisper image. Of course, the difference isn’t going to be that noticeable when you are in VR unless you are deliberately looking for it, and the Vive still has the advantage of a more immersive, bigger field of view and has no issues with light leaking in."

 

Both HMDs are a solid choice, regularly following what I can on VR I've yet to find recurrent unbiased testimonies of one being better at simming over the other, you simply won't go wrong with either. So fear not and get the one that appeals to you the most. ^^

 

 

There is no doubt that the Vive is very good, but if your a flight simmer there is no doubt that the Rift is the better choice. Its obvious the displays, optics, comfort, and ATW software are better than the Vives.

I'll add some Tom's hardware quotes aswell.

 

"If this comparison were about the headset alone, the Rift would be the clear winner here. Oculus has clearly put a lot effort into designing the most comfortable HMD it can, and combining it with class-leading optics and display technology, excellent built-in audio and perfect tracking. When you are wearing the Rift, and it is properly adjusted, it almost feels like it isn’t there."

 

"The Rift does have a wild card, though. That’s its upcoming Touch controllers, which could be a game changer. They look to be excellent, perhaps better than the Vive’s controllers, and if priced right, and combined with a release of some compelling room-scale VR experiences, the Rift could be elevated to be the best overall VR package."

 

This has been the consensus of most reviewers who have following VR's for the last few years, not reviewers new to the tech who are blown away by the very immersive "hand trackers, and room scale".

[Vivoune]

There is no doubt that the Vive is very good, but if your a flight simmer there is no doubt that the Rift is the better choice. Its obvious the displays, optics, comfort, and ATW software are better than the Vives.

I'll add some Tom's hardware quotes aswell.

 

"If this comparison were about the headset alone, the Rift would be the clear winner here. Oculus has clearly put a lot effort into designing the most comfortable HMD it can, and combining it with class-leading optics and display technology, excellent built-in audio and perfect tracking. When you are wearing the Rift, and it is properly adjusted, it almost feels like it isn’t there."

 

"The Rift does have a wild card, though. That’s its upcoming Touch controllers, which could be a game changer. They look to be excellent, perhaps better than the Vive’s controllers, and if priced right, and combined with a release of some compelling room-scale VR experiences, the Rift could be elevated to be the best overall VR package."

 

This has been the consensus of most reviewers who have following VR's for the last few years, not reviewers new to the tech who are blown away by the very immersive "hand trackers, and room scale".

 

Agree to disagree :). I find that's a growing trend that is quite exclusive to DCS forum that the Vive is best for general VR and the OR is best for simming thanks to a bit sharper image, better comfort and ATW. You can find countless comments/videos from experienced VR and sim enthusiasts on various forums, youtube and reddit that hands down prefer the Vive due to it's wider FOV that doesn't feel as much like looking through ski goggles, the brighter screen and vivid colors that doesn't feels like looking through sunglasess , and the diminished godray effect that many admit they'd gladly exchange a bit of screen sharpness to get rid of it. As much as you can find comments from people preferring the OR for that matter.

 

I haven't tried both HMDs side by side first hand though but from everything I could gather, there's no 'best' choice for simming, it's all compromises. Whatever choice you are making, whatever helmet you decide to go with, you're doing concessions. They do things a bit differently, not better or worse. One thing that the OR does best as of today is ATW, that everyone agree provides a smoother experience when the computer is struggling. Both HMDs will evolve a lot in the coming months software/driver side so I don't doubt both helmets will continue to improve on that aspect.

Edited May 18, 2016 by Vivoune

[hansangb]

I'll let you know which I prefer. I already have the vive and will be getting my Rift in two days. It shipped sooner than "end of the Month" though still months late from the original forecast.

 

The one thing I *don't* like about vive is the need for two sensors. I totally get why they are needed, and I don't know what CV1 requires. But with DK2, I just hung the sensor on my monitor and called it a day.

 

Since I am not at all interested in room tracking, it's annoying for me. If I were planning on walking around the room, I'm sure I'd be excited about it.

[Vivoune]

The CV1 only has one sensor. Much easier to set up and get started than the Vive, so you should like it in that aspect. ;)

 

I'll let you know which I prefer.

 

Thank you for saying which one "you prefer" and not which one "is the best".

Edited May 18, 2016 by Vivoune

[vicx]

Since I am not at all interested in room tracking, it's annoying for me. If I were planning on walking around the room, I'm sure I'd be excited about it.

 

I think you would be too. I have tested 3.2x3.2m and now I can't go back to 2.5m so I had to empty my room for good, just for the Vive :) Budget Cuts! Mind blowing. H3VR is also really great. It is a kind of physics based gun-sim and I like it a lot.

 

But it does look like I'll be sitting DCS VR out until I upgrade at the end of this year. I did some testing and my rig is not even close for DCS.

Edited May 18, 2016 by vicx

[Shogun0]

I find that's a growing trend that is quite exclusive to DCS forum that the Vive is best for general VR and the OR is best for simming thanks to a bit sharper image, better comfort and ATW.

 

It isn't just DCS forums.

 

I have read that on both the Rift and Vive subreddits, the Rift forums, etc.

 

The only caveat that I have read was that the Vive does have a brighter display. Other than that, the Rift is a bit more comfortable, a bitter clearer image, and that is why I have read in multiple places that the Rift is a better option for a seated experience.

 

I love the fact that there are two viable products. Competition between them will bring out the most in them both.

[RoyMi6]

Agree to disagree :). I find that's a growing trend that is quite exclusive to DCS forum that the Vive is best for general VR and the OR is best for simming thanks to a bit sharper image, better comfort and ATW. You can find countless comments/videos from experienced VR and sim enthusiasts on various forums, youtube and reddit that hands down prefer the Vive due to it's wider FOV that doesn't feel as much like looking through ski goggles, the brighter screen and vivid colors that doesn't feels like looking through sunglasess , and the diminished godray effect that many admit they'd gladly exchange a bit of screen sharpness to get rid of it. As much as you can find comments from people preferring the OR for that matter.

 

I haven't tried both HMDs side by side first hand though but from everything I could gather, there's no 'best' choice for simming, it's all compromises. Whatever choice you are making, whatever helmet you decide to go with, you're doing concessions. They do things a bit differently, not better or worse. One thing that the OR does best as of today is ATW, that everyone agree provides a smoother experience when the computer is struggling. Both HMDs will evolve a lot in the coming months software/driver side so I don't doubt both helmets will continue to improve on that aspect.

 

I own both. I've tried both side by side playing DCS.

 

While technically the FOV might be narrower it's not something you notice if you actually play the game rather than focus on the issue.

 

While technically you might get more god rays on the Rift, again, it's not something you notice when you actually start to fly.

 

While technically the Vive might have the brighter screen again, I can't say I noticed until someone pointed it out and I went back to check.

 

However, one thing you do notice is that if you put on the Vive and try to read the cockpit instruments all those positives are blown out the water by the decrease in apparent image resolution.

 

The added bonus of ATW with the Rift that means you don't feel lightheaded just after getting past the loading screen is a bonus, but I'd happily concede that this is something I hope the Vive also implements.

 

I'd also say that I spend double the amount of time with my Vive demoing VR to people. The room scale stuff is fantastic and simply blows a lot of stuff out the water when you compare it do the standard Rift demos and titles.

 

But if you want to play a flight sim, and read real world scale cockpit instruments at the same time, you're doing yourself a disservice buying the Vive instead of the Rift.

 

While it's a hard choice to make, the logical conclusion is the Rift for simming in my book. Like anyone else, it's just my opinion, but owning all the DK1, DK2, CV1 and Vive I know how the technology has progressed and what matters - resolution over a couple of degrees FOV is going to win every time when you use the thing day by day. FOV simply doesn't matter when you can see things clearly compared against a wider FOV that makes things blurry.

 

The current batch of "made for VR" Vive games routinely focus on lower detail experiences and ones that don't would immediately benefit from a higher resolution screen. When touch comes out for the Rift those games will have a whole new life.

[Vivoune]

I own both. I've tried both side by side playing DCS.

 

While technically the FOV might be narrower it's not something you notice if you actually play the game rather than focus on the issue.

 

While technically you might get more god rays on the Rift, again, it's not something you notice when you actually start to fly.

 

While technically the Vive might have the brighter screen again, I can't say I noticed until someone pointed it out and I went back to check.

 

However, one thing you do notice is that if you put on the Vive and try to read the cockpit instruments all those positives are blown out the water by the decrease in apparent image resolution.

 

The added bonus of ATW with the Rift that means you don't feel lightheaded just after getting past the loading screen is a bonus, but I'd happily concede that this is something I hope the Vive also implements.

 

I'd also say that I spend double the amount of time with my Vive demoing VR to people. The room scale stuff is fantastic and simply blows a lot of stuff out the water when you compare it do the standard Rift demos and titles.

 

But if you want to play a flight sim, and read real world scale cockpit instruments at the same time, you're doing yourself a disservice buying the Vive instead of the Rift.

 

While it's a hard choice to make, the logical conclusion is the Rift for simming in my book. Like anyone else, it's just my opinion, but owning all the DK1, DK2, CV1 and Vive I know how the technology has progressed and what matters - resolution over a couple of degrees FOV is going to win every time when you use the thing day by day. FOV simply doesn't matter when you can see things clearly compared against a wider FOV that makes things blurry.

 

The current batch of "made for VR" Vive games routinely focus on lower detail experiences and ones that don't would immediately benefit from a higher resolution screen. When touch comes out for the Rift those games will have a whole new life.

 

I've had the chance to try a rift yesterday night, in Luckey's tale, DCS 1.5 and Assetto Corsa (although not for long sadly, it was late, we're considering trading HMDs for a week though out of curiosity).

 

I stand by everything I've stated earlier, the Rift does have a more subtle SDE, a bit crisper screen and better sweet spot but that's when being picky and looking for differences, its clarity, lower FOV or sweet spot didn't jump on me compared to the Vive like many claims it should. (No SS was in effect and all DCS quality was on LOW & flat like home).

 

The only substantial differences I've noticed are screen's brightness, contrast and colors which feels more "alive" and real on the Vive while ATW that really provided a butter smooth experience in the Rift (though no start from ramp was done, it was only instant action free flying at reasonable heights, all the time clear summer sky at noon). To me, the screen qualities of the Vive are preferable as it's a bit less crisp but the feeling of immersion mor ethan makes up for it. But that's subjective.

 

Like I've said in another post, some people will find the differences are night & day while others find it's nitpicking on any or all differences. I don't know if it's personal tolerances, anatomy, eye vision, glasses, quality control or what, but the differences in opinion seems to me as wide between people as both HMD's hardware are similar on the paper.

 

I'm just genuinely happy for people that finds one or either HMD have such drastic differences that it creates specialty and one or the other HMD is undeniably the absolute best for what they want to do with it, that they could previex it for themselves and feel they've made the right choice. I'm one of those that, for seated flight and racing simming, really truly love both the Rift and Vive and if as a potential VR buyer I wouldn't at this point in time put much weight in anyone's opinion that would find one or the other to be vastly superior for flight/racing sims.

 

In my humble opinion no one could go wrong with either but considering the vast differences in opinion, perception and interpretation that still eludes me now that I've tried both, the only thing I'd advise anyone that might be on the fence about an HMD for simming is to try both before you buy if possible and form your own personal opinion. ^^'

Edited May 25, 2016 by Vivoune

[DerekSpeare]

I demoed both the Vive and the CV1. The SDE on the Vive isn't much better than my Dk2, and the SDE is significantly better on the CV1 than the DK2. The smaller FOV on the CV1 is not significant enough to offset the major benefit of increased clarity, and when you add in the benefit of ATW, the facts stack up in favor of the Oculus. The Oculus is the best choice for driving and flying games without question (IMHO).

Edited May 25, 2016 by DerekSpeare

[Vivoune]

I demoed both the Vive and the CV1. The SDE on the Vive isn't much better than my Dk2, and the SDE is significantly better on the CV1 than the DK2. The smaller FOV on the CV1 is not significant enough to offset the major benefit of increased clarity, and when you add in the benefit of ATW, the facts stack up in favor of the Oculus. The Oculus is the best choice for driving and flying games without question (IMHO).

 

Exactly, I read your well put review of the Vive and how disappointing you found the hardware was while your OR CV1 preview put your DK2 to shame.

 

To me it proves my point that there is so many different opinions the only good and sensible advice is to have people try both before taking the plunge. You demoe'd both HMD's CV and found the Vive to barely be atop the DK2, I demo'ed both HMD's CV and found them very similar for the most part, ask another one and he/she'll say the Vive is leagues ahead.

 

What's important is that you're happy with your purchase and that DCS supports both HMDs. But having tried both first hand and in light of the amount of discrepancy in people's opinion in the past few weeks It is my personal opinion that no HMD is the universally better choice for simming. At least not for the reasons cited above, if it must be chosen it's for its cheaper price, which is why even as a Vive owner I advised many people to buy the Rift for seated games as you get, in my experience, the same for a better price.

 

I look forward to trying it on longer sessions though, you can feel the difference in weight will make a difference for intense dogfight. :P

Edited May 25, 2016 by Vivoune