Please help with TM Cougar setup :)

[Aluminum Donkey]

Greetings everyone,

 

I just got hold of a well-used TM Cougar HOTAS and spent hours re-working the stick gimbal so I could have a nice stick with zero freeplay and nice smooth axis control. I re-machined the wearing surfaces and installed new pivot pins, took the weaker roll axis spring and installed it in the pitch axis, and made a new softer roll axis spring. I even cleaned the original pots and find they're excellent. So far, so good--a great stick to fly with now, all slop-free and rock solid! All the pots are smooth, all of the buttons work well and the centering is excellent.

 

Problem is, I cant seem to get the throttle Microstick to work the way I want. In Cougar Control Panel, the Microstick is detected and calibrates properly, but I can only use it as a Mouse. I cannot get CCP to recognize it as a pair of normal joystick axes unless I switch the Microstick X and Y to lower-numbered axes (like 4 and 5) in CCP Axis Setup, and if I do that, now the Microstick shows up properly as two normal axes detected in Windows--however, the Antenna and Range knobs no longer show up!

 

It seems that the Cougar will only work with five axes. If I use the microstick as a normal joystick by designating it as Axes 4 and 5, then I can't use the Range and Antenna knobs. If I enable the Range and Antenna knobs as axes 4 and 5, the microstick only works as a mouse with Emulation turned on, and I can't use the pushbutton function of the microstick (Button 19), it only works as a mouse left-click.

 

I want to use the microstick to slew the radar cursor, and the microstick pushbutton (button 19) to lock targets. I can't assign Button 19 in DCS World with the microstick in Mouse mode.

 

So, how do I deal with this? Is it possible to program the Cougar to report more than five axes, so the Microstick is another two axes and its 'click' feature can be used in DCS World?

 

I'm not a Foxy programmer (or any programmer!!) so I'd really appreciate the help!

 

Peace and happy warfare,

Ian

[Kuky]

Cougar should work with 8 axis (there are 10 but only 8 can be used at one given time). You could try flushing the firmware. This is how I have mine setup (8 axis are enabled but as I use separate rudder pedals I am not using the rudder axis (and toe brakes axis are disabled)

[Aluminum Donkey]

Cougar should work with 8 axis (there are 10 but only 8 can be used at one given time). You could try flushing the firmware. This is how I have mine setup (8 axis are enabled but as I use separate rudder pedals I am not using the rudder axis (and toe brakes axis are disabled)

Kuky,

 

I have 7 axes in use, two for the microstick, but the microstick axes never show up as Windows-recognizable (Direct X) axes in DCS World. They only show up as mouse axes, so I'm stuck using the microstick as a mouse, in which case I can't use Button 19 (click down on the microstick) to select targets.

 

The microstick only shows up as conventional axes if I select them in CCP as axes 4 and 5--but then I can't use the Antenna or Range knobs.

 

Any ideas? I'm thinking about using my BU086a controller to build a USB box that I can plug the throttle directly into, instead of plugging it into the Cougar flight stick.

 

Peace

Ian

Edited June 6, 2016 by Aluminum Donkey

[Sokol1_br]

 

Problem is, I cant seem to get the throttle Microstick to work the way I want. In Cougar Control Panel, the Microstick is detected and calibrates properly, but I can only use it as a Mouse. I cannot get CCP to recognize it as a pair of normal joystick axes unless I switch the Microstick X and Y to lower-numbered axes (like 4 and 5) in CCP Axis Setup, and if I do that, now the Microstick shows up properly as two normal axes detected in Windows--however, the Antenna and Range knobs no longer show up!

 

It seems that the Cougar will only work with five axes.

 

 

A guess: maybe is due the fact that Cougar has connector for Rudder Pedal in their base,

so 3 axis are reserved for rudder and brakes. Windows DInput limit is 8 axis.

 

If is this you can only use this mini-stick trough their software. Try disable the axis for rudder and brakes.

[Aluminum Donkey]

A guess: maybe is due the fact that Cougar has connector for Rudder Pedal in their base,

so 3 axis are reserved for rudder and brakes. Windows DInput limit is 8 axis.

 

If is this you can only use this mini-stick trough their software. Try disable the axis for rudder and brakes.

 

I already did man, I tried disabling the Rudder axis and the two Toe Brake axes, leaving me with only the basic Cougar's seven axes in use. No matter how you slice it, the Cougar hardware can only interpret the microstick as a Mouse unless you assign it's axes to lower numbers--which wipes out the Range and Antenna knobs.

 

You can use Foxy or TARGET to assign keystrokes to it, but the native Cougar circuit board (in the stick base itself) doesn't seem to be able to interpret it as two Direct X (Windows accessible) axes when you're already using five others.

 

I already have one of Leo Bodnar's BU086a USB interface gadgets kicking around; I wish I could find a pinout diagram for the Cougar throttle's 15-pin connector, then I'd just make myself an adapter for the throttle and plug it into a separate USB port. That way I could configure it any way I want because it would work separately from the main flight stick.

 

Peace

Ian

[Aluminum Donkey]

Woohoo! Sorted it out in Foxy, just used the " - NO_BUTTON" modification and we're good to go!

 

I used:

 

USE MICROSTICK AS MOUSE (12,1,1) - NO_BUTTON

 

...and now I have a nice smooth radar cursor response and can map the microstick 'click' function (Button 19) in DCS World for target selection, and have plenty of memory left in the stick (about 91%)!

 

Oh man that was too easy. Wish this info was easier to get, I had to dig around for ages to get this @#?!! to work :) Pretty funny since this dang stick has actually been available (albeit in limited supply) for roughly three decades now, and the programming syntax hasn't changed any since then...

 

But when it works, it works so well. What a great stick to fly with--after several hours of re-machining and modifying the total-crap original stick gimbal to work well without any freeplay and near perfect centering.

 

Awesome, nice grab for $200, now all I need is maybe a GTX 980 Ti for another $200 and I'm good to go :)

 

Peace and happy warfare

Ian

Edited June 7, 2016 by Aluminum Donkey

[Thermal]

From years ago:

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3227915/Re:_TARGET,_Cougar_Control_Pan#Post3227915

 

I have no rudder attached to the Cougar. I do have CH Pro Pedals, which are another, separate USB device.

 

After much, much dicking around, I've gotten TARGET doing what I want, with ANT and RNG working (and indeed all Cougar axes working).

 

My god its ugly though.

 

Its done via a combination of Cougar Control Panel and TARGET.

 

So, and this is my working theory, CCP directly instructs the Cougar to do "stuff". Where stuff is re-mapping axis and also apply a custom calibration. So thats all done in hardware, at a low level, inside the Cougar. No need for device drivers.

 

So, in a nutshell, I told the Cougar to remap axis, then got TARGET to re-map them back to default. Because TARGET is no longer trying to re-map ANT_ELEV, but something else, it "works".

 

HOW:

So when you fire up CCP, you have a 10x10 matrix mapping Hardware Axis or "HOTAS Axes" to "Windows Axes" (which also come up with the Target Script name when you hover the mouse over the numbers 1-->10).

 

I've done the following map:

HOTAS Windows

X ------ 1

Y ------ 2

MSx ---- 4

MSy ---- 8

TH ----- 3

ANT ---- 6(*)

RNG ---- 5

RUD ---- 7 (This axis, "7" is disabled and has a red circle/line over it like "9" and "10")

LTB ---- 9

RTB ---- 10

 

This has meant that the Cougar is presenting to the USB interface the ANT_ELEV axis as DX_ZROT_AXIS ("6"*). Normally and by default this the rudder axis.

 

Then in TARGET I map "RUDDER" to DX_THROTTLE_AXIS. (This is the default axis for ANT_ELEV).

 

Code:

// ANT_ELEV is mapped to ZROT (RUDDER) in CCP. Target sees resultant as Rudder

// TARGET then maps that back to the default axis in Combined

MapAxis(&HCougar, RUDDER, DX_THROTTLE_AXIS);

 

 

 

Also see page 10 of the TARGET Script Editor Basics pdf for a table of axes and labels.

 

See.... simple!

 

There is definitely a bug in Target where its hating Axis 7/ANT_ELEV/DX_THROTTLE_AXIS on the *input* side.

 

And Izzy added this:

There is a bad define in one of the TARGET files, use IN_POSITION_AXIS_SLIDER2 instead of ANT_ELEV.

 

For example:

 

Instead of: MapAxis(&HCougar, ANT_ELEV, DX_THROTTLE_AXIS);

Do this: MapAxis(&HCougar, IN_POSITION_AXIS_SLIDER2, DX_THROTTLE_AXIS);

Edited June 8, 2016 by Thermal

[Aluminum Donkey]

Thanks everyone, I just figured out that everything works well if I set it up in Foxy, not CCP.

 

I guess CCP is a little buggy, it's fine for assigning response curves and/or deadbands, stuff like that, but it won't work well for assigning axes.

 

Foxy to the rescue!

 

I'm not using rudder pedals, I gotta build a decent set one day, they'll be hooked up by USB so I only need 7 axes in use on the Cougar. I prefer to set up the Microstick as a pair of DirectX axes so I can use it with any DCSW module that requires it, instead of only the ones that allow the use of the mouse. When using Foxy, I can set up anything the way I want and it always works properly.

 

It's all set up and working great now :)

Edited June 12, 2016 by Aluminum Donkey
change stuff

[Joe Lighty]

Resurrecting this thread from a few years ago. I can't, for the life of me, manage to get DCS (or I guess, Win 10) to see both axes on the microstick! I can get one to show up, but then not the other. I played around with different settings in CCP, but can only ever seem to get one axis to show in the drop down box in DCS. Any ideas?

I only have 7 axes activated in CCP, as I don't have rudder pedals and there not using the toe brakes, etc...

[Rudel_chw]

Resurrecting this thread from a few years ago.

 

 

why? .. .it would have been much clearer to start a new thread with this new subject.

 

 

I can't, for the life of me, manage to get DCS (or I guess, Win 10) to see both axes on the microstick! I can get one to show up, but then not the other. I played around with different settings in CCP, but can only ever seem to get one axis to show in the drop down box in DCS. Any ideas?

 

 

Your problem is that the Hotas Cougar has 10 axis while Window's DirectX allows only 8. As DCS is a DirectX game, it wont allow you to use all the axis of the Cougar at the same time, you have to disable some of them to use the microstick.

 

 

A better solution is to avoid programming the Hotas within DCS and instead use Thrustmaster software .. either the old Foxy that came with your Cougar or the newer Target, that you can download for free from Thrustmaster.

 

 

 

On my own Foxy profiles, I avoid using the microstick as analog axes, as they have a very limited travel and are thus not very precise ... instead I use them as digital axes, that generate a command on the up position, and another on the down position, and I can specify a large dead zone on the middle to prevent unwanted commands when just putting the finger over the microstick.

[Dudikoff]

I played around with different settings in CCP, but can only ever seem to get one axis to show in the drop down box in DCS. Any ideas?

 

You mean, in the Axis assignment screen?

 

I remember I had a lot of issues getting both of mine to be active there as well as there was some misalignment between TM Cougar and DX axis names and mapping IIRC so matching those was quite a hit and miss.

 

In the end I ended up configuring mine like this (as 6 and 8 with the disabled rudder axis in between):

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=182430&stc=1&d=1523570427

 

I also mapped mine in Target like this:

 

MapAxis(&HCougar, RDR_X, DX_ZROT_AXIS, AXIS_NORMAL, MAP_ABSOLUTE);

MapAxis(&HCougar, RDR_Y, DX_YROT_AXIS, AXIS_NORMAL, MAP_ABSOLUTE);

 

Used it for some SCurve adjustments in Target, but this step might have also been necessary for them to work in DCS, IIRC (not sure, it was quite some time ago).

[Joe Lighty]

Many thanks, Dudikoff, I'll give this setup a go!

[Dispatch]

I use the CCP, with the button and axis emulation is OFF (RED button/not green)

with the Axis Setup parameters as shown in reply2

 

the microstick should be visable in DCS now,

 

all other buttons are bound in DCS

 

slide axis from one extream to the other

(works fo me)

Edited October 9, 2019 by Dispatch