Making a Joystick Gimbal

[Warhog]

I, like most here, own a TM Warthog stick and throttle. For the most part I have been quite satisfied. Compared to any of the mass produced commercial sticks, the Warthog stick is unbelievable. But after 3 years of heavy use I now have concerns. The construction of the gimbal has always been a disappointment in my eyes because of the poor choice in materials for it. In fact, I now have substantial play in it. Because its all plastic its rather hard to fix. Not only that but it now requires regular lubrication to remove stiction and maintain smooth movement. The process of disassembling it to relube on a regular basis is a royal pain in the butt.

 

Because of these concerns I started researching how I might build a new gimbal. I wanted to replace the Thrustmaster design with an over built brick shithouse that has the same accuracy but would last forever (so to speak). At least outlast me. So here is the beginning of my venture into gimbal replacements.

 

What material to use? Aluminum was first choice as its machinable and will last forever. Its not that easy to machine though. Its messy (lots of cutting fluid and smelly) and time consuming. Then I thought about acrylic. Its strong but expensive when you purchase thick pieces as I would need. A major factor in choosing acrylic is that its really easy to machine and and really easy On the machine and the endmills used for cutting it. In my travels on the internet I discovered a product called "Weld-ON #4. It actually melts 2 pieces of acrylic together to form one piece. That in itself increases it's strength by a lot. Certainly enough to withstand the abuse I put it too. So acrylic it was. Then there were bearings to look at. They can be quite expensive, however I found an interesting solution. Check this out...

 

https://www.amazon.ca/Parts-Master-391-PM-U-Joint/dp/B00CYGXD66/ref=pd_ybh_a_30?ie=UTF8&refRID=J1TRTPF66E6HRJDME434

 

This is a $6.00 universal joint. For six bucks I could afford to try it and trash it if it was garbage. It was not. I had my material and my bearings. Now I just needed a design. An afternoon spent looking through the internet at design after design finally gave me some ideas that I thought could use. So I working up some drawings in AutoCAD, went to my trusty CamBAM and produced the G-code I needed. Then off to the mill. Is used .173" thick acrylic sheet and cut three of everything. I then welded them together using this Weld-ON #4 and I ultimately produced this...

 

IMG_0849 by John Wall, on Flickr[/img]

 

IMG_0853 by John Wall, on Flickr[/img]

 

IMG_0855 by John Wall, on Flickr[/img]

 

https://c5.staticflickr.com/8/7327/27376210060_ac3b91121c_h.jpg' alt='27376210060_ac3b91121c_h.jpg'>IMG_0856 by John Wall, on Flickr[/img]

 

It still needs work. I have ordered some UGN3503 Hall sensors for it. The Allegro 1302 Hall sensors I purchased don't give sufficient sensitivity but these new ones will. The 1302 will be fine for the toe brakes on the new pedals I'm building. I also need to add some dampers and/or springs so I will be experimenting with that a bit before I decided how to tackle that part of the project. But the choice of acrylic was a good choice. This gimbal is way stronger than it would ever need to be short of going to war. But I doubt that will happen in the near future :music_whistling:.

 

SO there you have it. A brand new gimbal made from inexpensive parts and materials that has ZERO play in it and its as smooth as silk. It should be a great replacement for the TM gimbal. I'll post more pics to this thread as my gimbal design evolves.

 

Hope you enjoyed the post.

[Wedge]

It should be a great replacement for the TM gimbal. I'll post more pics to this thread as my gimbal design evolves.

 

 

...and then you shall sell them to the hordes who are currently drooling over your work! Beautiful work, Warhog!

[Brewnix]

Nice Work! That does look stout.

[Warhog]

...and then you shall sell them to the hordes who are currently drooling over your work! Beautiful work, Warhog!

 

Thank you Wedge. It would great if someone could develop a drop in gimbal replacement for the stick. (But Not me). I think it would be a product that might sell reasonably well considering how many Warthog sticks are now in the gaming community. To bad TM won't pick up the challenge and do something about it.

 

My next big challenge are the sensors. BTW, just an update on the sensors...it seems that the A1302 IC's are in fact the sensor of choice as the other sensor I mentioned, the UGN3503, has been retired and the A1302 is its replacement. So now it's all about how you place the sensors and magnets to obtain a strong continuous signal. Should be a fun excerise. Once i have figured it out I will post my solution.

[Sokol1_br]

Honeywell SS495A1 or Allegro a 1321 or 1322 HALL sensor has more sensitivity than mentioned HALL models, so became less angles/strong magnet dependent.

 

As Warthog gimbal replacement a probable issue:

 

All the mentioned HALL sensor work in analog interface (like a potentiometer, +5V, Gnd, Signal), Warthog HALL sensor (Melexis MLX90333, that is "3D", mix X, Y axis movement) work in digital interface - require 5/6 wires, probable Tm controller don't allow connect a analog sensor.

[Warhog]

I will look into the IC's you have recommended. Thank you. :thumbup:

 

As to the controller, I will use the TM controller for all of the switches/buttons on the stick but I will use a separate controller for the x and y axis on the new gimbal. Probably an Arduino Micro programmed with mJoy or similar. That way I don't have to worry about directly interfacing with the TM controller. I hadn't planned on using this gimbal as a drop in replacement but more as a means of getting away from the plastic gimbal that TM uses.

 

I did some quick testing this afternoon with the A1302 and I am getting 4.9v at centre. It then drops to 2.6v at each end of the swing. I love how steady the values are that I get with the Hall sensor. There isn't any jitter like you get with pots.:D

[Sokol1_br]

As you plan use a Arduino USB controller for X,Y axis why don't look at Arduino PRO Micro+MMjoy2, this allow you use TLE501x GMR sensors instead HALL, in digital interface (binary code instead voltage variation).

 

GMR sensors are more advanced and ease to set that HALL sensors.

 

Actually used in joysticks by VKB, BAUR (Komaroff sensors), and DIY in MMJoy2.

[adrianstealth]

Brill, keep posting pics please !

[cichlidfan]

Absoluting stunning work!!

[Kuky]

Good job on the gimbal design :)

[Warhog]

Honeywell SS495A1 or Allegro a 1321 or 1322 HALL sensor has more sensitivity than mentioned HALL models, so became less angles/strong magnet dependent.

 

As Warthog gimbal replacement a probable issue:

 

All the mentioned HALL sensor work in analog interface (like a potentiometer, +5V, Gnd, Signal), Warthog HALL sensor (Melexis MLX90333, that is "3D", mix X, Y axis movement) work in digital interface - require 5/6 wires, probable Tm controller don't allow connect a analog sensor.

 

If I were to use the MLX90333 could I then just plug in to the Warthog controller directly. I had been trying to find out what sensor it uses without taking it totally apart. Maybe I should take it apart. :music_whistling: I wouldn't need to tie up another USB port this way. Otherwise mmjoy and the Pro Micro will be the controller of choice. I tried mmjoy with a Mega and I was really impressed.

 

I am surprised with the variety of new sensors. It's so hard to keep current now a days. Thanks for your help Sokol. Your comments have been extremely informative. And thanks guys for your most kind comments.

[Hansolo]

Excellent work as always Warhog. Will be following progress with interest :thumbup:

 

Cheers

Hans

[hansangb]

Very nice indeed. So the Ujoint is nice and smooth I guess? The picture looks like it may not be smooth.

 

And there was never a "T" in your alias? Goodness gracious, all this time, my brain was filling the T in Warhog? Wow.

[Warhog]

I'm a war junkie or as some would say a real pig for war hence ...War Hog. There's also that movie, Warhorse which is similar but not.

 

Anyways, yes that universal looks crappy and I had my doubts but those end caps are in fact needle bearings and once it was assembled and I tested the motion I got this big smile across my face. Smooth as silk. Best $6 bucks I ever spent. What really impressed me was how easy it was to machine the acrylic to very fine tolerances and then once it was glued together it was incredibly strong.

[adrianstealth]

Just ordering one of those joints lol

 

Can't help my self, thanks for the info Warhol

 

Ps will make a P-51 stick

[hansangb]

I'm a war junkie or as some would say a real pig for war hence ...War Hog. There's also that movie, Warhorse which is similar but not.

 

Anyways, yes that universal looks crappy and I had my doubts but those end caps are in fact needle bearings and once it was assembled and I tested the motion I got this big smile across my face. Smooth as silk. Best $6 bucks I ever spent. What really impressed me was how easy it was to machine the acrylic to very fine tolerances and then once it was glued together it was incredibly strong.

 

 

Thanks for the intel (as always) I guess fish tanks hold thousands of pounds of water with acrylic and acrylic glue, (I watch Tanked :)) so that makes sense. Can't wait to see what you do with the gimbal!

[agrasyuk]

That is a good looking contraption John. Looking forward to see how you do the spring load.

[Warhog]

That is a good looking contraption John. Looking forward to see how you do the spring load.

Me too Anton:helpsmilie:

 

Just an update after some more research and comments. I wanted to use the Melexis MLX90333 as it would be a direct plug in to the TM controller but the more I read I realized that this won't work as you need a magnet at the base of a stick that moves in both axis . Mine doesn't do that. It has one axis at the base and the other is above it...if that makes sense. So far the TLE 5011 is the sensor I have decided to try. Its digital so no need for a ADC. Its sounds as though it quite easy to set up as well. and considering the cost is a couple of bucks...lets give it a try and see. The A1302 will not go to waste as they can handle the toe brakes of my pedals not to mention other things like a noisy pot that I could replace.

 

Now for the springs....

Edited June 17, 2016 by Warhog
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