Ka-50 VS helicopters

[Avarax]

Hi. I have problem from one mission in campaign K-50. One mission send me and my 3 AI kill some artillery and MLRS. But problem is after we attack this base he call 2 mi-24 hind. And i dont know how kill this 2 helicopter.

 

I try look on youtube, tutorial mission in DCS. I need some tips or some video how can shoot down some stupid helicopters.

[Thomas67]

What is the file name of the mission (ato-#-##.#.miz.?.)?

The name is displayed in the briefing.

Look in DCS World \ Mod \ aircraft \ Ka-50 \ EN \ Campaigns

Normal enemy gunships are opposed by the own air defense.

You can try to shoot the Hinds with your rockets or machine cannon.

[Fri13]

Hi. I have problem from one mission in campaign K-50. One mission send me and my 3 AI kill some artillery and MLRS. But problem is after we attack this base he call 2 mi-24 hind. And i dont know how kill this 2 helicopter.

 

I try look on youtube, tutorial mission in DCS. I need some tips or some video how can shoot down some stupid helicopters.

 

Use the Vikhr or Cannon.

 

You need to get the lock on them with Skhval (not difficult) and preferred to tail-boom (that is more difficult) or engines.

 

Once you have the lock, you need to check that your targeting system is set to A/A mode and if going fast, then "Head-On" (H/O?) mode as well.

 

With cannon you can easily get targets just with "Moving Ground Target" mode enabled normally and firing a HEI in fast short bursts from 3.5-4km range if they are not doing combat maneuvers.

 

The problem with the KA-50 is that the Vikhr A/A proximity and pre-fragmented warhead isn't simulated, so you are required to get a direct hits, and you can need to get 2-3 hits for Mi-24 as the impact is just straight through, why tail-boom hit is good as it cuts it off.

 

If we would have the proximity and pre-fragmented warhead simulated, we could easily shoot down all kind aircrafts with Vikhrs as you would not be required to get a direct hits.

 

Ps. The vikhr will use the proximity and pre-fragmented warhead only when it is programmed so on the launch, so you can't change the Vikhr warhead mode after launch :-/

[Yurgon]

I'm no good at air-to-air engagements in the Ka-50, but a few things I've gathered from the forum over the years:

 

1. Your Vikhr missiles outrange most other helicopter-based missiles

 

If you can spot the enemy first, and get a lock, and fire a missile, you should be able to defeat every single type of chopper.

 

Set salvo length to medium or long in order to fire 2 missiles - you'd rather waste a missile than not destroy the threat. ;)

 

2. Set Vikhr to Air-to-air mode

 

AFAIK the air-to-air mode simply sets a different fuzing so that the missile explodes just before impact (unlike the standard-setting that would have them explode on impact), providing more damage against unarmored aircraft as opposed to heavily armored tanks.

 

If the enemy flies straight at you, set Head-on AA mode as well as Air-to-air mode.

 

3. Spotting the enemy: Fly lower than they do

 

Aircraft are usually hard to see against the ground. If you fly lower than they do, their contrast in front of the sky should make them easier to spot.

 

Also, the relatively new option "Model enlargement" makes aircraft and vehicles easier to spot over great distances. Not 100% realistic, but neither is not being able to spot anything beyond 4 km, so it's always a compromise. Personally, I prefer "Model enlargement: Medium", I think that's a good trade-off.

 

4. Cannon

 

The 30 mm cannon has great range and accuracy. If you can get a lock and a range reading, the fire control system will do the aiming (within the cannon's limits).

 

Without target lock, or if you forgot to arm the laser, you can always reset the targeting system and engage the target WWII style with a forward firing cannon. Works best at close range, obviously.

 

5. Using your wingmen

 

Order your wingmen to engage bandits. Depending on the AI settings that are set in the mission, they might all die, or they might wipe out the enemies without breaking into a sweat. In any case they give the enemy choppers something else to shoot at.

 

6. Evading enemy missiles

 

Hinds engage you with AT-6 Anti-tank missiles or with their cannon. The missiles aren't really made for attacking fast moving targets. If you expect they'll start shooting at you, try to fly sideways at high speed. That way you can keep them in sight, but chances are their missiles can't keep up with you.

 

7. All seeing AI

 

Unfortunately, the AI in DCS can see pretty much everything. Unless it was fixed, they can even spot you through hills, so don't even think about outsmarting or surprising them.

 

But if you have allied anti-air assets available, fly towards it and drag the enemies with you. If you get lucky, your SAMs will take them out. ;)

 

8. Practice makes perfect

 

Set up a simple training scenario in the mission editor. Your Ka-50 vs. one Hind, and then just fly it until you feel confident you can kill him most of the time. Or adjust the scenario so you have a flight of 4 vs. 2 Hinds, just like in the mission, and keep practicing that for a while.

 

9. AA missiles: Nope

 

First one to suggest the Ka-50 desperately needs air-to-air missiles gets banned for a month. :lol:

 

Edit: Sniped by Fri13 ;)

[Avarax]

Mission is:

Campain - Deployment- Mission: On the other side

 

Look on foto 1. Have all what i need active ?

 

Foto 2 - i have problem from my ai team mate he is total stupid.

 

If i send him target from datalink button 1 vehicles he go to close and dont shoot missils

 

What is target SAM and other tipe us if i target what ?

 

And what is ingress point ?

 

And i have more problem: Ekran steal warning me he whant rotor antiice but i have steal activ wtf ?

And can mission save ?

Edited July 14, 2016 by Avarax

[Isegrim]

-First picture looking good.

H/O *Head on mode* means the missiles fuse will be triggered in front of the target. This will create and Fragmentation funnel heading towards the Target and is usefull as soon as the Enemy is coming towards your own Position.

 

-Second picture

Try to give them orders via the Comms menu. AI is still broken in big parts of its own it seems.

 

- SAM = Surface to Air Missile.

Those can be Infrared guided or radar guided.

Knowing facts about those and recognizing them correctly in the Shkval are a very important part of doing the correct decisions during your flight. Check the Encyclopedia in DCS or Wikipedia about those.

 

- Ingress point is an highlighted point on the ground and can be used for some functions. All of your points you create in the ABRIS via DataLink (DL) are Ingress points this one is just not named.

# Highlight something to your Wingman via Datalink

# Realign your INU (Internal Navigation Unit)

# For yourself to keep that position in mind

etc.

 

 

:)

ISE

Edited July 14, 2016 by Isegrim

[ShuRugal]

-First picture looking good.

H/O *Head on mode* means the missiles fuse will be triggered in front of the target. This will create and Fragmentation funnel heading towards the Target and is usefull as soon as the Enemy is coming towards your own Position.

 

It is worth noting that while this is how it works IRL, fragmentation warheads are NOT modeled at all in DCS.

[Avarax]

Vikhr total miss evry shoot on heli but canon have good democracy

[Thomas67]

Helicopter combat tactics.

Attacks, if the enemy helicopters attacking a target.

[BitMaster]

Always stay above the other heli..he cant shoot thru his rotor circle but you can lower that gun quite a bit ;)

 

Hover and turn on the spot when the opponent thinks he flies an airplane and circles around you. Hover, turn to aim - shoot - win :)

 

Check Six :)

[Yurgon]

Always stay above the other heli..he cant shoot thru his rotor circle but you can lower that gun quite a bit ;)

 

Hover and turn on the spot when the opponent thinks he flies an airplane and circles around you. Hover, turn to aim - shoot - win :)

 

Check Six :)

 

Versus human players, that sounds like good advice.

 

But with the all-seeing AI that fires accurate at max range - I wouldn't deny myself the opportunity to actually see the target against the sky/clouds when it's hard enough to spot enemies already. Or does the AI not pitch up in order to be able to fire at human helos above them? I think that's not much of a problem for them.

 

Then again, in a purely human vs. human helicopter dogfight, I've seen people crash while I was above them because they focused too much on aiming and not enough on flying. Then again, in these dogfights I've seen all kinds of things, and did all kinds of stupid crashing myself. :P

[Reaper6]

It is worth noting that while this is how it works IRL, fragmentation warheads are NOT modeled at all in DCS.

 

Are you sure it isn't modeled? I use A/A-H/O everytime to take out F15s etc. You can also engage A/A mode on groups of infantry which will achieve a proximity burst which kills them.

 

Reaper6

[microvax]

Are you sure it isn't modeled? I use A/A-H/O everytime to take out F15s etc. You can also engage A/A mode on groups of infantry which will achieve a proximity burst which kills them.

 

Reaper6

 

Yep there is no fragmentation damage, thats why s8KOM are simply much worse then they should be against unarmoured stuff.

 

ATM in DCS fragmentation is kinda achieved by exagerated blast effect.

[Isegrim]

It is worth noting that while this is how it works IRL, fragmentation warheads are NOT modeled at all in DCS.

 

In A/A Mode only there is a significant chance to miss fast targets with small signature Head on because the weaponsystem can only provide a 100m accuracy.

 

So if the missile does pass the Target (by small manouvering as example) the missile will explode behind it.

 

And if the Target is fast enough it will do no damage because it has left the explosion volume zone.

 

That the fragmentation in RL would evantually look more devastating doesnt matter here.

 

The russians did send their Cosmonauts to space with a pencil

while the US Astronauts did get a special developed Ball pen.

 

So if you guys think about it.... if the russian build a H/O button into the KA-50 there must be a reason for that.

And in DCS this button is needed aswell.

Edited August 3, 2016 by Isegrim

[microvax]

Against Aircraft I allways send the first one with a a/a or a/a + headon and the second like 2 seconds later with an impact fuze. According to my testing results the impact fuze deals more damage then any of the A/A fuzes, I mean obviously due to the closer blast center.

 

That way I ensure some damage and ideally the kill with the second vikhr.

 

 

Edit: The pencils were a bad Idea due to the graphite and they got phased out relatively soon by the russians as well. :D

Its an myth that the pencil is a sign of russian practical thinking. For once it is not ! :D

[BSS_Sniper]

Just send your flight to attack the heli's, sit back and watch.

[Isegrim]

Just send your flight to attack the heli's, sit back and watch.

 

Nahh not in Multiplayer. :smilewink:

[Moretto]

The main reason for H/O button in KA-50 is the widely known story ;)

[BSS_Sniper]

Nahh not in Multiplayer. :smilewink:

 

Well good thing OP is talking about the Ka50 campaign. Where did you get mp from?

[Isegrim]

Well good thing OP is talking about the Ka50 campaign. Where did you get mp from?

 

Just saying :)

 

And OK... AI Wingman can be added in Multiplayer aswell. But normaly its not done.

[Stuge]

For good Vikhr hits try to fire when the target is not moving much laterally. Best is straight head-on. Always enable A/A mode (if not then you need direct hit) and always double fire (one hit may not be enough.

 

Even relatively slight lateral movement causes Vikhr miss, it is not primarily an air to air missile :)

[Boris]

No matter what tactic you use, Vikhrs are still woefully underpowered against helicopters. You can get three or more direct hits and not bring down a Hind, where a single burst of the canon will do the same job.

[Fri13]

The russians did send their Cosmonauts to space with a pencil

while the US Astronauts did get a special developed Ball pen.

 

So if you guys think about it.... if the russian build a H/O button into the KA-50 there must be a reason for that. And in DCS this button is needed aswell.

 

There is many features in KA-50 that are not implemented, not working correctly or just simply totally missing.

 

And A/A is one of those, like is as well the fragmentation simulation.

 

Oh, and NASA developed special pen, because a lead in the pencil doesn't work so well when contacting a computers wires or other electronics....

[Fri13]

Even relatively slight lateral movement causes Vikhr miss, it is not primarily an air to air missile :)

 

Oh but it is.

 

It is fast enough to catch fast moving targets in head-on (up to 500m/s) and it can pull enough G forces to intercept a target that is moving about 120kph sideways (or relatively similar ratio).

 

You need fairly big movement or fast to avoid Vikhr, and helicopters can just pull that at good max speed by flying like fixed-wing.

[KAMOV]

Hi alls,

in my squadron we tested a mission with the interception of two mi-24v, this is what we have concluded

 

1 when the mi-24 is more than 3.5 km it is possible to destroy by firing 2 missiles vhikrs :thumbup:

 

2 when the mi-24 is less than 3.5km it is best to use the gun