Input Devices Re-Initialisation

[BIGNEWY]

I have been flying DCS in the same Windows 10 PC for about 4 years. This repeated re-initialisation started around Jun 2016, at about the same time that DCS introduced the hot-plug-in capability. Prior to then, there was no re-initialisation, after that it happens on just about every sortie of more than an hour or so.

 

It is possible that MS made some changes to Windows at about that time. But, on the circumstantial evidence thatI have, my money is on the DCS change.

 

The most frustrating aspect is ED’s unwillingness to acknowledge that it has even noticed that there is an apparent problem.

 

If you think it is something DCS has changed why are we not all seeing the issues?

I am not, and the feature has been very handy for me when I forget to turn on TrackIR.

[blast]

If you think it is something DCS has changed why are we not all seeing the issues?

I am not, and the feature has been very handy for me when I forget to turn on TrackIR.

 

When this thread was started, you answered that the issue was from a lose USB connection or a windows problem. Then many users have made all the possible test to manage the situation (read the entire thread if you didn't). And recently i also performed a test including the usb log viewer which confirmed that my usb devices NEVER get disconnected. I also did everything else possible but with no success.

Also, why the input creation is triggered when pressing alt+enter?

And why this problem is only happening with DCS and not with the others games i installed.

 

Its not because you are not able to reproduce the bug that the problem doesn't exist. Have you ever experienced an issue with a software that the others users didn't have on their computer?? :doh:

 

If there was only one guy experiencing this on earth, fine. But here we are not alone to experience that, and many others don't necessarily report the problem. May be they just say "ok fine, this game is not for my config i'm not going to spend my money in it". This is really happening.

[BIGNEWY]

When this thread was started, you answered that the issue was from a lose USB connection or a windows problem. Then many users have made all the possible test to manage the situation (read the entire thread if you didn't). And recently i also performed a test including the usb log viewer which confirmed that my usb devices NEVER get disconnected. I also did everything else possible but with no success.

Also, why the input creation is triggered when pressing alt+enter?

And why this problem is only happening with DCS and not with the others games i installed.

 

Its not because you are not able to reproduce the bug that the problem doesn't exist. Have you ever experienced an issue with a software that the others users didn't have on their computer?? :doh:

 

If there was only one guy experiencing this on earth, fine. But here we are not alone to experience that, and many others don't necessarily report the problem. May be they just say "ok fine, this game is not for my config i'm not going to spend my money in it". This is really happening.

 

 

 

I'm not saying the problem does not exist, I'm saying I am not getting the problem. There is no clear reason for this happening in DCS that I can see, and I have looked.

 

I have made ED are aware so we will have to see what happens.

Edited March 26, 2018 by BIGNEWY

[BitMaster]

When this thread was started, you answered that the issue was from a lose USB connection or a windows problem. Then many users have made all the possible test to manage the situation (read the entire thread if you didn't). And recently i also performed a test including the usb log viewer which confirmed that my usb devices NEVER get disconnected. I also did everything else possible but with no success.

Also, why the input creation is triggered when pressing alt+enter?

And why this problem is only happening with DCS and not with the others games i installed.

 

Its not because you are not able to reproduce the bug that the problem doesn't exist. Have you ever experienced an issue with a software that the others users didn't have on their computer?? :doh:

 

If there was only one guy experiencing this on earth, fine. But here we are not alone to experience that, and many others don't necessarily report the problem. May be they just say "ok fine, this game is not for my config i'm not going to spend my money in it". This is really happening.

 

Having the same or very similar symptom does not by definition have the same source for all.

 

USB problems are very complicated to troubleshoot and often are unsolvable unless you exchange the chips.

[blast]

Having the same or very similar symptom does not by definition have the same source for all.

 

USB problems are very complicated to troubleshoot and often are unsolvable unless you exchange the chips.

 

Yes you are right. But as i said previously: me and many others have no USB disconnection and has been confirmed monitoring with the usb log view tool.

We can split this problem in at least 2 categories: those who experience usb disconnection and those who are not (like me and others).

If the people without usb disruption experience the input creation issue as same as those who experience usb disconnection THEN we can conclude that the input creation issue is not related to an USB issue.

If you switch between windows mode to full screen by pressing alt+enter it triggers all the input creation events. There is no reason to recreate inputs at that moment.

 

I think the easiest for ED should be to give us the possibility to deactivate the automatic input creation. It could be something to modify in a config file such as boolean to false, and then everyone is happy.

[Coug4r]

Just out of curiosity, how often do you use alt-enter during flight?

[blast]

Just out of curiosity, how often do you use alt-enter during flight?

i dont know i just spam alt+enter like crazy because you know i like inputs creations :prop:

[Drakoz]

Yes in summer of 2016, two things happened (as best I have determined) that caused this issue. 1) Windows released an update that created some problems for many Windows users (mostly related to power saving features for USB devices), and 2) DCS released an update that allows for game controller hot swap. It seems the combination of the two has resulted in the problem most of us are reporting here.

 

But the real issue for DCS users is not the Windows issue as the Windows issue mostly does not cause any direct harm. I mean, I see my Saitek flight panels flash every 30 minutes or so all day long which is the Windows issue, but it doesn't prevent them from working 100% of the time when I am actually using them in games like X-Plane. Since they are actively being used in X-Plane, they never reset there. Same would be true for DCS if DCS didn't re-init things as a result of the Windows issue.

 

So It is how DCS reacts to the Windows issue, or any other circumstance that may cause DCS to perform a DirextX re-init and re-discover of all devices that is the problem - at least the problem which ED can solve regardless of the Windows issue. It is the re-init and rediscovery that is the problem. I haven't tried it, but I am not surprised that an Alt-Enter would cause it as this is in general a major reset of the game (reset of all graphics and it probably executes the game controller re-init and re-discover code).

 

There should be a way for DCS to discover hot swapped game controllers without having to issue a DirextX reset, and causing a 3-5 second delay. Both are detrimental and they are two separate actions. If ED disabled the hot-swap re-discovery, I'm sure this problem would go away. But that is not a solution - hot swap is very important for a flight sim given the complexity of the game controllers we used. There is a solution that should be possible to allow hot swap, and not cause the 3-5 second delay or re-init all game controlles.

 

The re-init is a big deal too, not just the game lockup. The re-init causes came controllers to reset. This doesn't affect most devices, but it does affect some. For example, it causes the Logitech G940 FFB stick driver to re-init and reset all current FFB settings which results in the helicopter trim being screwed released. It causes some custom built cockpit game controller boards to re-init and reset all their logical toggle switches (switches whose toggle state is stored in memory to simulate a real toggle switch). Hopefully ED can at least look at this and give some idea of if they can even repeat it, much the less solve it.

 

BTW, blast, this could still affect your non-USB laptop keyboard because the driver that makes your keyboard work still follows the same power shut down features of USB devices even though it is not a USB device. Meaning, the driver doesn't know it isn't a USB device. That is how drivers in Windows work - they are virtualized to assume that all HID devices are separate devices (like a USB device) and generically implement all common features, including power shut down.

[blast]

I finally solved the issue.

 

Three days ago I performed two things:

1. I completely removed my antivirus Avira in order to let windows defender doing the job.

2. I removed a program called USB charger+ natively installed on my PC.

 

I haven't tested DCS between these 2 steps then I'm not sure which one is involved into the issue, but i would bet it is the second one (the usb charger program).

 

As I previously said I have an Asus laptop (a good one), and natively Asus installed a couple of softwares on it. Some are useful and others are not and could cause tricky problems with DCS such as "inputs creations"...

 

I would like to mentioned again that when I had the issue, the tool 'USB log viewer' never detected USB disconnection. I also tried ALL the advises posted here but with no success. That's why this problem is very tricky.

 

Finally, I suggest you check ALL the programs installed on your computer even the oldest one or the one that came natively with it. One of them should be the source of the problem.

 

Also, I hope ED would make an option to disable the input creation during the game. It could be useful for many.

[Drakoz]

Glad to hear it, and yes as you say, it is a tricky problem. I have a lot of older software on my machine - Win7 to Win10 upgrade, so my OS dates back probably 4-5 years now. I intend to wipe the hard disk and re-install to see if that makes it go away. Just waiting for the right time because my PC will be down for several days when I do it.

[Habu_69]

I had TrackIR frequent reinitialization issue also about 15 months ago. Drove me nuts. I spent DOZENS of hours troubleshooting with no joy. Abandoned DCS for a few months until I performed a Win10 HD format and reinstall. No recurrence since then. (Knock on wood; salt over shoulder)