TBear Posted July 23, 2016 Posted July 23, 2016 Anibody knows where to find EM Charts for the F-5 ? Mission designer with...drumroll.... MOOSE https://flightcontrol-master.github.io/MOOSE_DOCS/ skin artist at: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=183217
Hummingbird Posted July 23, 2016 Posted July 23, 2016 Anibody knows where to find EM Charts for the F-5 ? Search for the F-5 performance manuals, they're available online.
Ramsay Posted July 23, 2016 Posted July 23, 2016 I think what you are looking for is on page 412 of the flight manual T.O. 1F-5E-1 http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/1946738/ i9 9900K @4.8GHz, 64GB DDR4, RTX4070 12GB, 1+2TB NVMe, 6+4TB HD, 4+1TB SSD, Winwing Orion 2 F-15EX Throttle + F-16EX Stick, TPR Pedals, TIR5, Win 11 Pro x64, Odyssey G93SC 5120X1440
ФрогФут Posted July 23, 2016 Posted July 23, 2016 Please, note, that this manual features F-5E and not the F-5E-3, which is simulated. Those two have aerodynamic differences. "Я ошеломлён, но думаю об этом другими словами", - некий гражданин Ноет котик, ноет кротик, Ноет в небе самолетик, Ноют клумбы и кусты - Ноют все. Поной и ты.
Hummingbird Posted July 23, 2016 Posted July 23, 2016 Please, note, that this manual features F-5E and not the F-5E-3, which is simulated. Those two have aerodynamic differences. I don't really see any major differences that would affect the EM charts?
NeilWillis Posted July 23, 2016 Posted July 23, 2016 I don't see many differences between a Ferarri and a Mercedes F1 car either, but they sure as hell perform differently!
Hummingbird Posted July 23, 2016 Posted July 23, 2016 I don't see many differences between a Ferarri and a Mercedes F1 car either, but they sure as hell perform differently! Yes they do, most importantly because they feature different engines ;) The point of the question was for him to reveal what aerodynamic differences he's talking about. I've been looking at the aircraft plans and everything seems the same, incl. the shape of the LERX incase that's what he was talking about as some early versions featured rounded ones.
TBear Posted July 23, 2016 Author Posted July 23, 2016 Yes what I'm looking for are the energy management charts fro the F-5E-3 ;) The Tiger simulated here in DCS :) Mission designer with...drumroll.... MOOSE https://flightcontrol-master.github.io/MOOSE_DOCS/ skin artist at: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=183217
NeilWillis Posted July 23, 2016 Posted July 23, 2016 Indeed, but something as simple as a software update can drastically affect how the LERX operates, with huge implications for flight envelopes. Can you see those changes?
Hummingbird Posted July 23, 2016 Posted July 23, 2016 Indeed, but something as simple as a software update can drastically affect how the LERX operates, with huge implications for flight envelopes. Can you see those changes? LERX are fixed, so that would surprise me ;)
WinterH Posted July 23, 2016 Posted July 23, 2016 One difference would be that, variant we have in DCS, has automatic flap feature, setting flap angle automaticaly according to speed / angle of attack apparently. Another one would be, the variant we have features a "blade" like tip on it's nose, unlike more pointy nose type of other F-5s. Semi related observation : F-5E family seem to have fairly diverse shapes, some seem to have an extended root on vertical tail too, and some have a slot like feature at base of canopy where others do not. Than if we add F-5A and NF / CF-5 series, it becomes almost as diverse as MiG-21 airframes :P. Wishlist: F-4E Block 53 +, MiG-27K, Su-17M3 or M4, AH-1F or W circa 80s or early 90s, J35 Draken, Kfir C7, Mirage III/V DCS-Dismounts Script
ФрогФут Posted July 23, 2016 Posted July 23, 2016 The nose shape is different + additional vortex generators on the sides of the nose for F-5E-3. "Я ошеломлён, но думаю об этом другими словами", - некий гражданин Ноет котик, ноет кротик, Ноет в небе самолетик, Ноют клумбы и кусты - Ноют все. Поной и ты.
Hummingbird Posted July 23, 2016 Posted July 23, 2016 The nose shape is different + additional vortex generators on the sides of the nose for F-5E-3. Do these translate to any noticable difference on the EM charts though?
ФрогФут Posted July 23, 2016 Posted July 23, 2016 Do these translate to any noticable difference on the EM charts though? By quick look: F-5E achieves 7.33G at 360 kts at 5kft (13600 lbs), F-5E-3 achieves 7.33G at 340 kts at 5 kft (13750 lbs). "Я ошеломлён, но думаю об этом другими словами", - некий гражданин Ноет котик, ноет кротик, Ноет в небе самолетик, Ноют клумбы и кусты - Ноют все. Поной и ты.
Hummingbird Posted July 23, 2016 Posted July 23, 2016 By quick look: F-5E achieves 7.33G at 360 kts at 5kft (13600 lbs), F-5E-3 achieves 7.33G at 340 kts at 5 kft (13750 lbs). Ok, what are the G figures at Mach 0.5, 0.6 & 0.7 ? With those a more detailed difference can be determined
ФрогФут Posted July 23, 2016 Posted July 23, 2016 Ok, what are the G figures at Mach 0.5, 0.6 & 0.7 ? With those a more detailed difference can be determined "Я ошеломлён, но думаю об этом другими словами", - некий гражданин Ноет котик, ноет кротик, Ноет в небе самолетик, Ноют клумбы и кусты - Ноют все. Поной и ты.
IvanK Posted July 23, 2016 Posted July 23, 2016 Identical chart it would seem for the NAVY F5N source F5N NATOPS manual. Duckbill nose might help a little compared to conical nose.
TBear Posted July 24, 2016 Author Posted July 24, 2016 Comparing the charts seem that those rivals have very similar turning performance in almost all the envelope..U will need very fine and sensitive hand to manage energy. I guess we will have very "sporty" dogfights over there :thumbup::thumbup: Pity we cant feel the Gs on our bodies, cause from my experience phisical preparation is what often make the difference in those circumstances. :smilewink::joystick: Mission designer with...drumroll.... MOOSE https://flightcontrol-master.github.io/MOOSE_DOCS/ skin artist at: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=183217
Hummingbird Posted July 24, 2016 Posted July 24, 2016 (edited) Keep in mind that chart is for a very light MiG-21F-13, thus isn't really representitive of the two ton heavier Bis - IIRC the F-13 in the US "havedoughnut" tests only weighed some 5,500 kg. However due to increases in thrust the STR was kept roughly the same through to the Bis, but ofcourse the ITR was obviously noticably lower. Edited July 24, 2016 by Hummingbird
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