the craziest cookiest and coolest kill ive ever gotten in dcs

[Rlaxoxo]

rare conditions ? 236knots @ 10k feet ? with FBW off ? you call it rare conditions ?

if a plane doesn't destruct and doesn't lose control/speed with these conditions, than dogfighters will DEFINITELY always have FBW off in most of their sorties - if it gives them such enormous AoA's

 

oh yeah, let's mention it

I had this case once online - a week ago. I was head on 2xF-5 Tigers, just wanted to splash both of them with my 530s. Splashed one, and another one ascended really high above me, so I had to pull the stick back hard. Of course I never switch my FBW off, moreover in that flight I had a central fuel tank on me, so I had FBW Charges. I have no idea how it happened, but when I pulled hard on the stick and gained ~85°, suddenly the plane got into a flat spin and started falling, making an engine stop. I had to run an emergincy start-up procedure ... managed to get out alive

But this never happened to me again.

another flight model bug !

 

I mean, of course engine stop during flat spin or long inverted flight is realistic. But the flat spin itself just because I pushed hard on the stick with FBW Charges ? Excuse me.

 

Okay ...

[Fer_Fer]

rare conditions ? 236knots @ 10k feet ? with FBW off ? you call it rare conditions ?

if a plane doesn't destruct and doesn't lose control/speed with these conditions, than dogfighters will DEFINITELY always have FBW off in most of their sorties - if it gives them such enormous AoA's

 

oh yeah, let's mention it

I had this case once online - a week ago. I was head on 2xF-5 Tigers, just wanted to splash both of them with my 530s. Splashed one, and another one ascended really high above me, so I had to pull the stick back hard. Of course I never switch my FBW off, moreover in that flight I had a central fuel tank on me, so I had FBW Charges. I have no idea how it happened, but when I pulled hard on the stick and gained ~85°, suddenly the plane got into a flat spin and started falling, making an engine stop. I had to run an emergincy start-up procedure ... managed to get out alive

But this never happened to me again.

another flight model bug !

 

I mean, of course engine stop during flat spin or long inverted flight is realistic. But the flat spin itself just because I pushed hard on the stick with FBW Charges ? Excuse me.

 

have you bugreported it?

[ZHeN]

nope, cause I haven't recorded a video

and I'm still experiencing problems with track playbacks (but it's a DCSW issue, not RAZBAM's)

[jojo]

nope, cause I haven't recorded a video

and I'm still experiencing problems with track playbacks (but it's a DCSW issue, not RAZBAM's)

 

just post the track, no need for video...

[jojo]

Nonetheless this is a bug. It does not work as intended - you may not know how it works in real life but I can assure you that this is not how a plane flies, ever, at least not without TVC.

 

Maybe it'd be better to post it in the bugs forum but overall it's pretty clear something weird is going on, so I deem it reasonable to be adressed by the players. It's no show-stopper by any means but it's still a bug.

 

Nobody said it wasn't a bug...

[The M]

I just tried it and my plane broke into pieces before getting close to the AoA you're getting there. Pretty sure that's what is supposed to happen.

[codefox]

Nobody said it wasn't a bug...

Sorry, I just had the feeling ZHeN had been attacked for complaining about a bug.. the way it had been said to him seemed a little overly aggressive to me, but that may have been just my view.

 

I just tried it and my plane broke into pieces before getting close to the AoA you're getting there. Pretty sure that's what is supposed to happen.

 

You may want to try it a little slower and not pull too hard if it breaks apart. I was able to replicate it earlier.

[tob.s]

cool, gotta try this - there will alway be manouvers that only can be flown in a sim as nobody would risk to do so in real live, so for some manouvers ( not speaking of this particiualor one) wee will never know for sure...

[The Black Swan]

F-22 and other thrust vectoring aircraft could probably do this IRL :D

[ZHeN]

[Aginor]

Yeah, they do. And it would be as useless in combat (although probably not as dangerous or they wouldn't do it) as in the DCS Mirage.

 

EDIT: This is awesome too: [ame]

[/ame]

 

Even in DCS it is a high risk maneuver with a small chance of success that only can work in a certain situation. Is it a bug? Yes, of course. But can it be expoited for some real advantage? I'd say probably not. That makes it a bug of a lower priority for me.

Edited August 5, 2016 by Aginor

[QuiGon]

That's pretty much it:

 

 

But no Mirage :pilotfly:

[Zeus67]

:( this is a very disappointing video

flight model is still ridiculous ... I thought this behaviour has already been fixed many patches ago ... :( no progress so far

how can we even discuss future PFM having this ..?

 

CptSmiley, you plead guilty ?

 

I disagree. The flight model is not ridiculous. The problem is that people like him disengages the FBW in order to do these stunts.

 

In RL he would have crashed to the ground long before completing that "somersault". Unfortunately this is a simulation, the simulator engine will do nothing except check that the aircraft is in the air. The EFM is reponsible for everything. We are the ones who have to come with a response and we cannot account for all the stunts you people will do in order to "game" the EFM. We are the ones who have to tear out the wings, kill your airspeed, create a uncontrollable spin and basically put you in the center of a crater in the ground.

 

We can't keep up with the shenanigans you guys do. This is something we did not test even in our wildest dreams.

 

And I will give 3 to 1 odds that after we fix this, another video just like this one will appear.

 

Right now we have to prevent you from flying supersonic with bombs under your wings.

 

As for the Red Wings maneuver, AFAIK that stunt was tried in real life and ended with a very dead pilot. He just killed all his energy and provided his chaser with a very stable target for a couple of seconds. The tale was told in one of those air combat videos in you tube.

[Whisper]

The questions is not how many times people will use this in game. I'll never understand this kind of comment, this is a SIMULATION. This is not physically possible in the real world, so it shouldn't be possible at all in the sim.

I believe the FM is a carefully crafted series of parameters, that influence each other. Cleary something is wrong in some of those parameters if we're able to perform such stunts, and this should make you think that other parts of the fm are affected as well.

 

Re-read that part which you don't understand. I DON'T say the FM is fine. I DON'T ask for no correction of this.

I just point out that saying "the FM is ridiculous" or "But looking at these videos, it becomes obvious, that the quality of flight modelling is far from the quality of systems modelling at the moment" is a massive exageration when compared to this bug and its impact on the overall FM (ie : 99.9% of the FM is fine, but when you disable FBW and find the ultra slow sweetspot speed, and only then, you can do a backflip, which is the 0.1% of wrong in the FM)

I will personnally never understand people entirely trashing something when a little part of it, that in practice nobody will see nor use, is not done perfectly. NOTHING is perfect, ever. We all (including the people complaining about non perfection) do imperfect things, all the time. There will always be something wrong in the Mirage FM. It's important to point these imperfections out. The manner to do it is, also, important.

Edited August 5, 2016 by Whisper

[cauldron]

I personally believe that when you create something new its one of the hardest things to accomplish, because you gain the loathing of those who would lose their personal interests with the success of your endeavor and only doubt and disbelief from the rest due to the risk in this "new" creation. I personally salute the creativity and resolve by razbam to create a sim that runs on a single pc, while still able to do acrobatics. There exist garage sized flight sim computers that do worse when you stray off the edge of a "normal" envelope than what we have today here.

 

I think such disparaging remarks in particular toward a developer that has been so open with us about the project's goals, in all its aspects, whether its systems or, flight model - and ... have made repeated efforts to accommodate "we" the users - is frankly disappointing to see in this forum.

 

oh, and did no one notice that it took half an hour to "stage" the maneuver? Like that could be pulled off vs, even a noob player adversary or for even anyone to take that more seriously than a stunt demonstrates much in my opinion. Its a circus stunt and has a 1 in a million chance of working in an adversarial situation, so why all the hate???

 

 

Razbam... I for one, and i believe many out there do solemnly appreciate your work. I salute you. <o

[spiddx]

I personally believe that when you create something new its one of the hardest things to accomplish, because you gain the loathing of those who would lose their personal interests with the success of your endeavor and only doubt and disbelief from the rest due to the risk in this "new" creation. I personally salute the creativity and resolve by razbam to create a sim that runs on a single pc, while still able to do acrobatics. There exist garage sized flight sim computers that do worse when you stray off the edge of a "normal" envelope than what we have today here.

 

I think such disparaging remarks in particular toward a developer that has been so open with us about the project's goals, in all its aspects, whether its systems or, flight model - and ... have made repeated efforts to accommodate "we" the users - is frankly disappointing to see in this forum.

 

oh, and did no one notice that it took half an hour to "stage" the maneuver? Like that could be pulled off vs, even a noob player adversary or for even anyone to take that more seriously than a stunt demonstrates much in my opinion. Its a circus stunt and has a 1 in a million chance of working in an adversarial situation, so why all the hate???

 

 

Razbam... I for one, and i believe many out there do solemnly appreciate your work. I salute you. <o

Well said!

[Rlaxoxo]

Well said!

 

Idd, he has way more brain cells then I do when it comes to arguing with people who just simply won't get the point

 

My brain just can't go trough it all that filtering while trying to contain all that BS of what I want to say

[pepto]

ok well seeing as i made the damn video here's my two cents

 

i really never thought it would be necessary to state this but i 100000% went into this knowing how crazy the concept is, i mean there's a REASON im using an ace combat livery. you guys really gotta cut razbam some slack because they obviously have more pressing and reasonable tweaks to attend to, it's not like this is a game breaking thing that everyone is going to try in multiplayer , it was just, if you could possibly imagine it, me having fun, nothing more than that, i did the maneuver for FUN, so that people could watch and have a good laugh, is it such an absolutely mind blowing concept that you can just goof off in a simulator sometimes??

 

is it realistic? of course not, but why should razbam go through the tedious task of fine tuning such a ridiculous thing, it has literally no serious application in the sim, the only way it could possibly be used is for just messing around, nobody could possibly go into a serious scenario with a top gun mindset of using this in a real dogfight, you will die, plain and simple, this is a big bomber that i modified to ignore my presence and just fly straight and brain dead and guess what, most of the time i tried this i ended up falling out of the sky

 

at this point i might as well delete the video because what was supposed to be me just sharing a good laugh is turning into everyone tearing into each other. razbam has done an incredible job with the mirage and i have the utmost respect for their work, and the work of ANY of the third party devs who bust their asses to bring us these modules, let them focus on actually important FM tweaks that apply to simulated scenarios, this was not meant to be a simulated scenario, this would never have worked and at no point did i go into this with a serious mindset, nobody in their right mind is going to fly a simulated scenario with the FBW system off and if they try they find themselves in a crater 99.9% of the time like i did when i was doing this

[Zeus67]

ok well seeing as i made the damn video here's my two cents

 

i really never thought it would be necessary to state this but i 100000% went into this knowing how crazy the concept is, i mean there's a REASON im using an ace combat livery. you guys really gotta cut razbam some slack because they obviously have more pressing and reasonable tweaks to attend to, it's not like this is a game breaking thing that everyone is going to try in multiplayer , it was just, if you could possibly imagine it, me having fun, nothing more than that, i did the maneuver for FUN, so that people could watch and have a good laugh, is it such an absolutely mind blowing concept that you can just goof off in a simulator sometimes??

 

is it realistic? of course not, but why should razbam go through the tedious task of fine tuning such a ridiculous thing, it has literally no serious application in the sim, the only way it could possibly be used is for just messing around, nobody could possibly go into a serious scenario with a top gun mindset of using this in a real dogfight, you will die, plain and simple, this is a big bomber that i modified to ignore my presence and just fly straight and brain dead and guess what, most of the time i tried this i ended up falling out of the sky

 

at this point i might as well delete the video because what was supposed to be me just sharing a good laugh is turning into everyone tearing into each other. razbam has done an incredible job with the mirage and i have the utmost respect for their work, and the work of ANY of the third party devs who bust their asses to bring us these modules, let them focus on actually important FM tweaks that apply to simulated scenarios, this was not meant to be a simulated scenario, this would never have worked and at no point did i go into this with a serious mindset, nobody in their right mind is going to fly a simulated scenario with the FBW system off and if they try they find themselves in a crater 99.9% of the time like i did when i was doing this

 

Just for the record. I enjoyed it and will request that you do not delete it.

[pepto]

well if anyone could enjoy the video im glad it's the devs who actually made the module haha, keep up the good work!

[cauldron]

Pepto... just in case... my commentary was not meant toward your OP. :P

Edited August 5, 2016 by cauldron
typo dam keybaoord

[Rlaxoxo]

ok well seeing as i made the damn video here's my two cents

 

i really never thought it would be necessary to state this but i 100000% went into this knowing how crazy the concept is, i mean there's a REASON im using an ace combat livery. you guys really gotta cut razbam some slack because they obviously have more pressing and reasonable tweaks to attend to, it's not like this is a game breaking thing that everyone is going to try in multiplayer , it was just, if you could possibly imagine it, me having fun, nothing more than that, i did the maneuver for FUN, so that people could watch and have a good laugh, is it such an absolutely mind blowing concept that you can just goof off in a simulator sometimes??

 

is it realistic? of course not, but why should razbam go through the tedious task of fine tuning such a ridiculous thing, it has literally no serious application in the sim, the only way it could possibly be used is for just messing around, nobody could possibly go into a serious scenario with a top gun mindset of using this in a real dogfight, you will die, plain and simple, this is a big bomber that i modified to ignore my presence and just fly straight and brain dead and guess what, most of the time i tried this i ended up falling out of the sky

 

at this point i might as well delete the video because what was supposed to be me just sharing a good laugh is turning into everyone tearing into each other. razbam has done an incredible job with the mirage and i have the utmost respect for their work, and the work of ANY of the third party devs who bust their asses to bring us these modules, let them focus on actually important FM tweaks that apply to simulated scenarios, this was not meant to be a simulated scenario, this would never have worked and at no point did i go into this with a serious mindset, nobody in their right mind is going to fly a simulated scenario with the FBW system off and if they try they find themselves in a crater 99.9% of the time like i did when i was doing this

 

Don't let actions of a few ruin what you've done, I watched it and though it was really cool, had a good laugh and suggest you keep it there

[jojo]

You have the track in first post :thumbup:

[pepto]

hey smiley! don't know how useful this info is but as i remember my method of recovery was to turn the FBW system back on a bit after i let out the canon burst (i had it mapped to my hotas to make it easier) and then i shoved the stick full forward until it stabilized, but of course a lot of it was just lucky timing as most of the time i would encounter heavy yawing which lead to a quick and very unpleasant departure, you're really at the mercy of where the plane wants to go based off of how you started the maneuver

 

what i think the most important thing to remember is just how inconsistent it is to pull off, the vast majority of it just comes down to lucky timing of everything, like when to start pitching up, when to disconnect or reconnect the FBW system, your bank angle prior to and during the first part of the pitch, and being able to recover, i didn't practice a maneuver so much as i threw myself around the sky (for a good bit of time mind you) until the stars lined up and i got a lucky hit on the bomber :P

[microvax]

I disagree. The flight model is not ridiculous. The problem is that people like him disengages the FBW in order to do these stunts.

 

In RL he would have crashed to the ground long before completing that "somersault". Unfortunately this is a simulation, the simulator engine will do nothing except check that the aircraft is in the air. The EFM is reponsible for everything. We are the ones who have to come with a response and we cannot account for all the stunts you people will do in order to "game" the EFM. We are the ones who have to tear out the wings, kill your airspeed, create a uncontrollable spin and basically put you in the center of a crater in the ground.

 

We can't keep up with the shenanigans you guys do. This is something we did not test even in our wildest dreams.

 

And I will give 3 to 1 odds that after we fix this, another video just like this one will appear.

 

Right now we have to prevent you from flying supersonic with bombs under your wings.

 

As for the Red Wings maneuver, AFAIK that stunt was tried in real life and ended with a very dead pilot. He just killed all his energy and provided his chaser with a very stable target for a couple of seconds. The tale was told in one of those air combat videos in you tube.

 

Agreed, do you mean supersonic at all with bombs or supersonic without AB and bombs ?

Would expect the latter to be the case. Or wont we be able to make it above mach 1 with bombs and full AB ?