Aiming with the guns and rockets

[Zeus67]

The M-2000C's gunsight has been improved and now it is more helpful than the previous circle dot.

 

The new gunsight not only predicts where the gun rounds/rockets will hit, but also indicates if you are in effective range.

 

 

For both the impact prediction and the range marker to function one of the following two methods must be working: TAS (radar ranging) or RS (radar altimeter ranging).

 

If neither are working, the aiming cross will remain at the boresight position and no range indication will be shown.

 

Please be aware that although the maximum range is 2400m and 2700m for guns and rockets respectively, the maximum range at which you should be firing would be Maximum Effective range (1800m and 2400m).

 

I've been told that doctrine it to dive between 10º to 30º down pitch angle and hit the target as soon as you are in maximum effective range. Please correct me if that is wrong.

Edited September 23, 2016 by Zeus67

[Flagrum]

If neither are working, the aiming cross will remain at the boresight position and no range indication will be shown.

I noticed this when trying out the guns and wondered, if this is the correct behaviour.

 

When you approach the target and line up the aircraft, the pipper suddenly jumps downward when you get into the max range. This makes it a bit hard to aim. Wouldn't it be more intuitive if the default placement of the pipper were at the max range position?

 

And perhaps the default placement at the boresight position would be only the default if neither TAS nor RS were active?

[Zeus67]

I noticed this when trying out the guns and wondered, if this is the correct behaviour.

 

When you approach the target and line up the aircraft, the pipper suddenly jumps downward when you get into the max range. This makes it a bit hard to aim. Wouldn't it be more intuitive if the default placement of the pipper were at the max range position?

 

And perhaps the default placement at the boresight position would be only the default if neither TAS nor RS were active?

 

I'll check.

[Skjold]

This sight is really useful, cheers!

[OperatorJack]

Either I'm not using this correctly or it isn't working for me, I have both TAS and RS on and the reticle doesn't move when I'm making a run

 

*EDIT* It works in RS but not TAS or both

[Texac]

Either I'm not using this correctly or it isn't working for me, I have both TAS and RS on and the reticle doesn't move when I'm making a run

 

*EDIT* It works in RS but not TAS or both

Don't forget to activate the Radar Altimeter switch on the HUD.

[OperatorJack]

Don't forget to activate the Radar Altimeter switch on the HUD.

 

When I was making runs I had Radar Altimeter on and RADAR on, RS would give me a gun solution alone but when paired with TAS or TAS was on its own then I wouldn't be given a solution. No idea if I'm actually using it wrong or not tbh.

[spiddx]

When I was making runs I had Radar Altimeter on and RADAR on, RS would give me a gun solution alone but when paired with TAS or TAS was on its own then I wouldn't be given a solution. No idea if I'm actually using it wrong or not tbh.

 

TAS is bugged at the moment.

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2908327&postcount=1

[Skjold]

Yeah TAS doesn't work currently. RS works fine however.

Edited September 26, 2016 by Skjold

[CoBlue]

After Fridays update Rockets & Gun worked fine.

But after the recent hotfix Rockets & Gun are falling short of the piper in RS mode? tested also TAS with the same results.

[lemoen]

After Fridays update Rockets & Gun worked fine.

But after the recent hotfix Rockets & Gun are falling short of the piper in RS mode? tested also TAS with the same results.

 

 

Yes, I haven't tried rockets but the guns are definitely falling short. Almost as if the calculation is being done for rounds moving in a straight line but the simulation applies gravity to them. I tried this with RS, TAS and both on and get the same result.

 

Edit: They fell short before the hotfix when using the RS mode too.

[Rlaxoxo]

Edit: They fell short before the hotfix when using the RS mode too.

 

I agree I think it's best to fire the guns once the range is on the 1st or 2nd notch in optimal range

[lemoen]

I agree I think it's best to fire the guns once the range is on the 1st or 2nd notch in optimal range

 

I don't quite follow. I'll make a video. I put the gun pipper on the target, wait until I'm within optimal range and fire a burst. The rounds all land a few meters short of the target. If I want them to hit I need to aim high. This happens on TAS and RS mode or if I have them both selected. So unless I'm not within firing parameters (too fast / slow, too steep / shallow) I don't think the problem is with my aiming. Is this the way it should be? With the A10, the rounds all land (more or less, it has bigger spread) around the spot on the ground where the pipper was when the shot was fired.

[myHelljumper]

It seams that the piper is fixed in distance for the moment

[kobeshow]

It seams that the piper is fixed in distance for the moment

 

yes, that was my thought aswell, the ranging for the pipper works but it does not seem to be considered in the positioning on the hud.

[Zeus67]

Yes, I haven't tried rockets but the guns are definitely falling short. Almost as if the calculation is being done for rounds moving in a straight line but the simulation applies gravity to them. I tried this with RS, TAS and both on and get the same result.

 

Edit: They fell short before the hotfix when using the RS mode too.

 

I agree I think it's best to fire the guns once the range is on the 1st or 2nd notch in optimal range

 

I don't quite follow. I'll make a video. I put the gun pipper on the target, wait until I'm within optimal range and fire a burst. The rounds all land a few meters short of the target. If I want them to hit I need to aim high. This happens on TAS and RS mode or if I have them both selected. So unless I'm not within firing parameters (too fast / slow, too steep / shallow) I don't think the problem is with my aiming. Is this the way it should be? With the A10, the rounds all land (more or less, it has bigger spread) around the spot on the ground where the pipper was when the shot was fired.

 

It seems that the bullets ballistics need work. The piper position is calculated based on defined muzzle velocity, but the ballistic characteristics of a round have several other criteria to create a path.

 

I've noticed that for the time being the best range to fire is at 1200 meters, which coincidentally it also max range for AA guns. Probably why nobody noticed that the ballistics are a little off.

[lemoen]

OK, maybe the pipper calculation is for projectile motion in a vacuum, but the simulation takes into account air friction (and maybe wind) too?

[Zeus67]

OK, maybe the pipper calculation is for projectile motion in a vacuum, but the simulation takes into account air friction (and maybe wind) too?

 

My guess is that the round friction coefficient is off, which will cause the round to lose velocity too fast. Fixing that will require a lot of testing and we don't have the time at this moment to do that. We will fix it, but not right now.

[lemoen]

OK, thanks, yes, the friction coefficient could be too large. For the time being we can all just learn to aim a bit higher, it is not off by much.

[Zeus67]

OK, thanks, yes, the friction coefficient could be too large. For the time being we can all just learn to aim a bit higher, it is not off by much.

 

Like I said, the problem was that since the round is reaching the target at max air-to-air engagement range nobody saw it. But since air-to-ground engagement use higher max ranges, 1800 vs 1100, the friction coefficient problem came to light.

[Rlaxoxo]

Awesome so Guns will be updated to get the correct ranging then?

[Zeus67]

Awesome so Guns will be updated to get the correct ranging then?

 

In due time yes. Right now we have other priorities.

[Rlaxoxo]

In due time yes. Right now we have other priorities.

 

Fair enough

[CoBlue]

Like I said, the problem was that since the round is reaching the target at max air-to-air engagement range nobody saw it. But since air-to-ground engagement use higher max ranges, 1800 vs 1100, the friction coefficient problem came to light.

Is it the same for rockets? they are hitting short too, both TAS/RS.

Also what works best for A2G now, TAS or RS?

[MauganRa84]

Does the new A2G gun pipper work in NTTR?

 

Cause I can only get the new pipper in 1.5.