Operation "Blue Flag" - 24/7 PvP Campaign - ROUND 9

[Alpenwolf]

Refueling time for the Flanker is longer than that of the Eagle. So if you set the Flanker's initial fuel at 20% then you'd have almost the same refueling time for both. That's why they did it like that.

[Tj1376]

 

So you're saying in order to provide CAP one should not get in a fighter in the first place, but instead get into an airframe that can destroy fuel bunkers...like a ground attacker. I agree with this sentiment, but unfortunately that is not how people are choosing to solve the problem. Each team cannot automatically suppress enemy fighters at the onset of joining or when moving the fight to a new sector. There will be fight vs fighter encounters. There should be punishments for losing these encounters, and advantages for winning these encounters.

Where did I say that?

 

I said establish CAP- while CAP is in the air you have to send someone in quickly to destroy the fuel bunkers to prevent their CAP from counter attacking.

 

This is much more realistic than what you have now.... The old way was : establish air superiority - then send in CAS - then send in helos. Now you have to coordinate your strike packages much more realistically. This is a win if you are after more realistic game play.

 

Why should someone have to best another player 3 times to get even a 5 minute window for attackers to move in? It should be 1 time multiplied by however many players are attacking (and then perhaps divided by other allied CAP). [/Quote]

Because in real life you'd be going up against a whole squadron. This better simulates that when numbers are low without relying on spawning in Enemy AI. Also, if you cant coordinate your CAP and CAS strikes, then I'd recommend you stay blue. Blue tried for five hours today to take one FARP- we couldnt do it in the 45 min respawn window. I've never rage quit from GCI before, and I completely did today.

 

Not every fight is over or about an airfield. What about the dozens of other objectives that your helicopters are being picked off by enemy fighters en route to? [/Quote]

FARPS are (for the most part) far from airbases. If I kill someone and they have to spawn at an airbase, they have at least a 50-60 mile flight to get to me. There is your respawn timer that you so badly want.. the long flight to the AO.

 

It takes 120 seconds to repair and the repair exploit gives full fuel (I think?). I'm just saying you stated that refueling times matter a lot, but then you implied refueling times don't matter in the next paragraph. In any case, an exploit is an exploit. I'm willing to bet anyone using one exploit will be using another exploit. Why tolerate any cheating in the first place?

It takes 120 seconds to start the repair, then it takes another 120 seconds or something to finish the repair. Its much closer to the F15 with 20% fuel and three bags scenario than you care to admit.

 

TJ

[M0ltar]

Where did I say that?

 

I said establish CAP- while CAP is in the air you have to send someone in quickly to destroy the fuel bunkers to prevent their CAP from counter attacking.

 

This is much more realistic than what you have now.... The old way was : establish air superiority - then send in CAS - then send in helos. Now you have to coordinate your strike packages much more realistically. This is a win if you are after more realistic game play.

 

 

Because in real life you'd be going up against a whole squadron. This better simulates that when numbers are low without relying on spawning in Enemy AI. Also, if you cant coordinate your CAP and CAS strikes, then I'd recommend you stay blue. Blue tried for five hours today to take one FARP- we couldnt do it in the 45 min respawn window. I've never rage quit from GCI before, and I completely did today.

 

 

FARPS are (for the most part) far from airbases. If I kill someone and they have to spawn at an airbase, they have at least a 50-60 mile flight to get to me. There is your respawn timer that you so badly want.. the long flight to the AO.

 

 

It takes 120 seconds to start the repair, then it takes another 120 seconds or something to finish the repair. Its much closer to the F15 with 20% fuel and three bags scenario than you care to admit.

 

TJ

I don't think it takes 120 seconds to start repairing. It starts as soon as you run the process from the radio and you have something damaged. The repair process also takes 170 seconds iirc.

[Tj1376]

I don't think it takes 120 seconds to start repairing. It starts as soon as you run the process from the radio and you have something damaged. The repair process also takes 170 seconds iirc.

 

In the a10 I get a countdown timer that says "wait for repair" and then it starts repairing.

 

TJ

[BodyOrgan]

There should be punishments for losing these encounters, and advantages for winning these encounters.

life - 1

 

I don't think it takes 120 seconds to start repairing. It starts as soon as you run the process from the radio and you have something damaged. The repair process also takes 170 seconds iirc.

170 seconds before repairs start. About 10 seconds after that till repair completion, then rearming time, then engine spooling time. As I said, it is about 3.5 to 4 minutes depending on how quickly you do everything.

Edited June 27, 2017 by BodyOrgan

[M0ltar]

In the a10 I get a countdown timer that says "wait for repair" and then it starts repairing.

 

TJ

Maybe I'm wrong then. Someone should check and post a video.

[AbortedMan]

Ok...180 seconds = 2 minutes. Point still stands.

 

Here's a quick synopsis of what I see the situation as:

 

Refueling for fighters (and fighters only, mind you) is in place to act as a gate so people don't spam the air with fighters. That is specifically the reason that the refueling process upon spawning a new aircraft is in the mission.

 

Some people don't like it so they want to have it changed to 100% fuel and get more fighters in the air quicker...directly conflicting with the mechanic that is in place and put in the mission for that sole purpose. This mechanic was added as a result of other complaints from players that didn't like the high availability of fighters.

 

Some people are choosing to sidestep the refueling mechanic by using a game exploit that is not intended to provide the results that it does given the context in which the refueling mechanic exists in Blue Flag.

[jackmckay]

1) DL is gone today. Why?

2) Could someone write a 'lag detection script' so one who lags too often gets statistically warned, on repeat kicked or even banned?

3) Maykop Su27 slot 20 was broken yesterday.

Edited June 27, 2017 by jackmckay

[AbortedMan]

Where did I say that?

 

I said establish CAP- while CAP is in the air you have to send someone in quickly to destroy the fuel bunkers to prevent their CAP from counter attacking.

 

This is much more realistic than what you have now.... The old way was : establish air superiority - then send in CAS - then send in helos. Now you have to coordinate your strike packages much more realistically. This is a win if you are after more realistic game play.

 

 

Because in real life you'd be going up against a whole squadron. This better simulates that when numbers are low without relying on spawning in Enemy AI. Also, if you cant coordinate your CAP and CAS strikes, then I'd recommend you stay blue. Blue tried for five hours today to take one FARP- we couldnt do it in the 45 min respawn window. I've never rage quit from GCI before, and I completely did today.

 

 

FARPS are (for the most part) far from airbases. If I kill someone and they have to spawn at an airbase, they have at least a 50-60 mile flight to get to me. There is your respawn timer that you so badly want.. the long flight to the AO.

 

 

It takes 120 seconds to start the repair, then it takes another 120 seconds or something to finish the repair. Its much closer to the F15 with 20% fuel and three bags scenario than you care to admit.

 

TJ

 

This is a game, not real life. As simulator as it is, it is not real.

 

It's not a matter of CAP process...it's a matter of slowing it down to a tactical and strategic pace. I get it, people in fighters want fighters to shoot down. That's normal. When you feed into that too much with no punishment for being shot down all you have is fighters and no one playing the objectives because they get shot down 4 minutes later by the same guy. And if you do happen to shoot the enemy CAP down 3 times and he runs out of lives, then what happens...he quits the server until lives restart some 4-5 hours later. Now you're playing a one-sided game with zero opponents...which is exactly what we've been seeing as of late.

[Tj1376]

Ok...180 seconds = 2 minutes. Point still stands.

 

Here's a quick synopsis of what I see the situation as:

 

Refueling for fighters (and fighters only, mind you) is in place to act as a gate so people don't spam the air with fighters. That is specifically the reason that the refueling process upon spawning a new aircraft is in the mission.

 

Some people don't like it so they want to have it changed to 100% fuel and get more fighters in the air quicker...directly conflicting with the mechanic that is in place and put in the mission for that sole purpose. This mechanic was added as a result of other complaints from players that didn't like the high availability of fighters.

 

Some people are choosing to sidestep the refueling mechanic by using a game exploit that is not intended to provide the results that it does given the context in which the refueling mechanic exists in Blue Flag.

Let me prove how it doesnt work...

 

This video was taken about 10 mins ago on the BlueFlag server.

 

It took me 1 minute and 47 seconds to refuel the F15 to get it fully fueled (the three bags will feed the mains completely full after takeoff.)

 

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5QkME6xDKWQSmVLaWo2WnBiM2M

 

To compare, it takes the SU27 seven minutes to refuel without cheating about lets say at best 4 minutes with the cheat? Moltar could you take a video of it? Im blue so no luck for me.

 

TJ

[M0ltar]

1) DL is gone today. Why?

2) Could someone write a 'lag detection script' so one who lags too often gets statistically warned, on repeat kicked or even banned?

3) Maykop Su27 slot 20 was broken yesterday.

Are you sure Datalink is gone or is the EWR that it uses just not deployed?

[Tj1376]

This is a game, not real life. As simulator as it is, it is not real.

 

It's not a matter of CAP process...it's a matter of slowing it down to a tactical and strategic pace. I get it, people in fighters want fighters to shoot down. That's normal. When you feed into that too much with no punishment for being shot down all you have is fighters and no one playing the objectives because they get shot down 4 minutes later by the same guy. And if you do happen to shoot the enemy CAP down 3 times and he runs out of lives, then what happens...he quits the server until lives restart some 4-5 hours later. Now you're playing a one-sided game with zero opponents...which is exactly what we've been seeing as of late.

No- you've been seeing a Mirage and Red fest lately, which we've tried to course correct on.

 

Id wager a gamble thats due to the full fuel the Mirage started with.

 

Now that its been removed, I've seen way less M2Ks on the server... I have seen quite a few more SU27s though.

 

Some of that will be due to DL (which may or may not be working, I cant tell, Im blue.) but some of it is also because it takes just 3 or four minutes for the SU27 to get off the ground.

 

TJ

[M0ltar]

Let me prove how it doesnt work...

 

This video was taken about 10 mins ago on the BlueFlag server.

 

It took me 1 minute and 47 seconds to refuel the F15 to get it fully fueled (the three bags will feed the mains completely full after takeoff.)

 

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5QkME6xDKWQSmVLaWo2WnBiM2M

 

To compare, it takes the SU27 seven minutes to refuel without cheating about lets say at best 4 minutes with the cheat? Moltar could you take a video of it? Im blue so no luck for me.

 

TJ

I can't buddy. I won't be back on until Thursday more than likely.

[mia389]

Blue tried for five hours today to take one FARP- we couldnt do it in the 45 min respawn window. I've never rage quit from GCI before, and I completely did today.

TJ

 

Epic battle for Sabuli. There was blue cap EVERYWHERE hunting for red choppers. Im not sure how blue did not take that farp.

[Tj1376]

Question before I post what I'm thinking about.

 

Does the F15 start with 0 fuel or does it now have 20% like the Flanker?

 

 

 

0 fuel for the f15 in the test I ran today.

 

TJ

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Tj1376]

Epic battle for Sabuli. There was blue cap EVERYWHERE hunting for red choppers. Im not sure how blue did not take that farp.

 

 

 

CAS kept attacking without helo support. Then we'd get a helo but the farp would respawn. A10s would descend but that gave red time to HeloQuake and setup new kubs (or repair them.)

 

Then we'd send a su25t in but by then CAP made it down and got some of the helos.

 

Then blue did what it does best. Let's send three Limas to the farp. Wait a second... the Limas don't carry troops....

 

It was epic fail after fail today.

 

TJ

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[OperatorJack]

Here's a solution to the F-15 bags issue.

 

Make the bags very limited to discourage cheesing fuel onto the aircraft in an unrealistic manner.

[AbortedMan]

Let me prove how it doesnt work...

 

This video was taken about 10 mins ago on the BlueFlag server.

 

It took me 1 minute and 47 seconds to refuel the F15 to get it fully fueled (the three bags will feed the mains completely full after takeoff.)

 

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5QkME6xDKWQSmVLaWo2WnBiM2M

 

To compare, it takes the SU27 seven minutes to refuel without cheating about lets say at best 4 minutes with the cheat? Moltar could you take a video of it? Im blue so no luck for me.

 

TJ

 

I'm aware of this and it's easily remedied by not allowing the wing tanks on the F15. Anything trying to circumvent the refueling timer should be blocked, IMO. This does not make or prove anything about how the refueling system does not work to combat an over-abundance of fighters in the air. Not everyone is using the F15 externals with empty internals and not everyone is using the repair exploit...or are they? Are all the people here complaining about refuel the ones using it?

 

No- you've been seeing a Mirage and Red fest lately, which we've tried to course correct on.

 

Id wager a gamble thats due to the full fuel the Mirage started with.

 

Now that its been removed, I've seen way less M2Ks on the server... I have seen quite a few more SU27s though.

 

Some of that will be due to DL (which may or may not be working, I cant tell, Im blue.) but some of it is also because it takes just 3 or four minutes for the SU27 to get off the ground.

 

TJ

It takes longer than 3 or 4 minutes to get the Su27 off the ground if you're fueling to 100% by legitimate means. Su27 is easy mode with DataLink now, by the way.

I think the server admins should make a public statement regarding using exploits to sidestep mission mechanics and deal with offenders as appropriate after that.

[M0ltar]

Here's a solution to the F-15 bags issue.

 

Make the bags very limited to discourage cheesing fuel onto the aircraft in an unrealistic manner.

The F15 needs the bags to compete with the Flanker in fuel. The Flanker carries just about 10000 kilos. If I remember right, the F15 is around 10000 pounds without bags.

[Tj1376]

Operation "Blue Flag" - 24/7 PvP Campaign - ROUND 9

 

I'm aware of this and it's easily remedied by not allowing the wing tanks on the F15. Anything trying to circumvent the refueling timer should be blocked, IMO. This does not make or prove anything about how the refueling system does not work to combat an over-abundance of fighters in the air. Not everyone is using the F15 externals with empty internals and not everyone is using the repair exploit...or are they? Are all the people here complaining about refuel the ones using it?

 

It takes longer than 3 or 4 minutes to get the Su27 off the ground if you're fueling to 100% by legitimate means. Su27 is easy mode with DataLink now, by the way.

 

It's going to be hard to enforce. Especially when the bug is with ED. The easiest way to enforce is to remove it and use the lives system to prevent AirQuake and HeloQuake. Stop hurting all players because a few airquake.

 

I disagree about your comment on DL, especially since so many red players report it doesn't work. Upon investigation it just turns out they haven't put up the EWRs to make it work.

 

 

TJ

 

Edit: no comment on the lack of m2k airframes? Sure seems to me that people have stopped using them.

 

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[CrashO]

Id wager a gamble thats due to the full fuel the Mirage started with.

 

Now that its been removed, I've seen way less M2Ks on the server... I have seen quite a few more SU27s though.

Well, it's not just the fuel that has been removed. so have been the MissileDetection system and the INS pre-alignment.

 

Fuel+Rearming from 0% takes 3,5 minutes in the mirage. INS align takes 8 minutes.

And while you can fly without aligning, by defaulting back to magnetic backup. It sucks thoroughly. So yes, less Mirages. But not just because of having to wait 3 minutes for fuel.

[karambiatos]

The F15 needs the bags to compete with the Flanker in fuel. The Flanker carries just about 10000 kilos. If I remember right, the F15 is around 10000 pounds without bags.

 

Wooow it's almost as if they both have their strengths and weaknesses, it's almost like they are different planes.

 

What you are now saying is pretty much that the Su-27 should get AIM-7s or ERs because it the R-27R is worse.

 

Also the F-15 has better fuel economy.

[AbortedMan]

The F15 needs the bags to compete with the Flanker in fuel. The Flanker carries just about 10000 kilos. If I remember right, the F15 is around 10000 pounds without bags.

 

No it doesn't and no it doesn't. Again, not everything needs to be equal. If we keep going down this road we may as well all be in the same aircraft...which people also don't like, apparently.

[AbortedMan]

Wooow it's almost as if they both have their strengths and weaknesses, it's almost like they are different planes.

 

What you are now saying is pretty much that the Su-27 should get AIM-7s or ERs because it the R-27R is worse.

 

He has said that!! It's funny because you're making a facetious joke, but it's reality...he and others have continuously said exactly that!

[OperatorJack]

The F15 needs the bags to compete with the Flanker in fuel. The Flanker carries just about 10000 kilos. If I remember right, the F15 is around 10000 pounds without bags.

So?