F-86 dog fighting with A2A missles...

[brettt777]

So I finally got up the courage (I know, it's just a game, right?) to take on a MiG-15 air to air last night. While I didn't get my tail kicked, I didn't win either. It was kind of a draw; I ran out of ammo before I could take him down. That being said, I had a very hard time getting any kind of a line of fire on him. I know the MiG was a bit faster and climbed a little faster also. But he seemed waaaay faster and it looked like he could climb about 5000 feet in the blink of an eye without loosing speed. Just my observation. I also may have had the AI setting on expert... don't remember adjusting it.

My question is this, I have tried to shoot an AI aircraft with the A2A missles (GAR-2???) but it ain't working right. I'm quite sure it's operator error although I did at the figure out that the trigger fires the missles instead of the FIRE button. Anyway, what is the proper procedure for acquiring a lock and firing a missle that actually tracks to a target? I can get tone and I can fire the thing but it just goes straight and doesn't track at all. I tried to RTFM but it ain't working for me.

[probad]

it might actually be tracking, it's just that the gar-8 guides like a vegetable. you'll likely have better luck in pvp, especially with a wingman where one of you can try to string a guy out for the other to come in with an easy gar-8 shot.

[qqQ]

A few thing first:

 

The GAR-8/AIM-9B is a very old A2A-missile, thus:

-it has a very limited tracking rate (meaning the seeker may struggle to keep following a hard maneuvering target)

-its turning abilities are also pretty bad (it cant follow a hard maneuvering target)

-its rocket motor doesnt burn long and has not a lot of thrust, thus the missile runs out of energy very fast when maneuvering and it also has a very limited range

-the missile will fly the first 300 meters straight, then the control fins are engaged and the warhead is armed

-after you fired the missiles, the pylons remain and create lots of drag (some say it is unrealistically much)

-the seeker can look on the sun or other heat sources

 

Employment: You maneuver your aircraft more ore less at your targets six, aim the pipper at the target, check if you are aiming in the proximity of the sun etc, listen for a solid lock tone, close in to firing range and press the trigger until the missile flies off.

 

Firing range is pretty low, for a reliable shot about 1 nm should be fine. However, it was a long time since I last used the missile...too far and the missile will not reach the target, espicially if the enemy detects you and starts to turn. Too close, and the missile will not have enough time to turn on an intersect course after the control fins are activated. Just experiment yourselfes.

 

Other tips: you can slightly lead the target and still keep it in the seeker FOV...also try to aim slightly above the target, as the missile will fall a little bit until the fins go active.

 

The GAR-8 is a perfect weapon for surprise attacks against straight flying fighters that are unaware of you or heavy aircraft, as it packs a lot of punch and is very accurate if employed correctly.

However, it can also be used in close in air-combat to some extent. You can use it to pick off targets that are involved in turning duels (try to fire the missile if they are reversing their turn or are in the section of the turn where they are roughly parallel to you, then the missile will need to maneuver the least). Its can also be used against targets that employ boom and zoom tactics with an energy advantage, as you can simply fire an missile at them when they trade their speed for altitude (shoot when they have minimum airspeed).

However, keep in mind that an enemy fighter with some kinetic energy left can almost always easily outmaneuver the missile if he sees it coming, so it remains a niche weapon on dogfight servers, maybe also because it requires lots of experience to get decent results. It also creates the already mentioned drag penalty that will put you at a significant disadvantage in a dogfight.

[Schmidtfire]

Take your time and wait for a good opportunity! The best position to fire GAR-8 is from behind (6 o' clock) and lower than your target. I get best results from around 2-3km, when the missile has a bit more time to track and manoeuvre. The target should fly straight or in a very slight turn.

 

If you still have trouble to get hits, It might be better to save and use GAR-8 as a weapon against fleeing and damaged enemies.

[Zimmerdylan]

You aren't alone in this. I run out of ammo almost every time against the Mig15. It's just exhausting.........

I at least have gotten past the stage where it just flat out kicks my b-hind every time. I can at least chase it and shoot at it long enough to run myself out of ammo. I have also run myself out of fuel trying to kill the Mig 15.

The guns don't do the kind of damage that the Mig's do and as it has been stated already. You may as well get out of the plane and throw the missiles at your adversary because you have to do it juuuust right to get a good lock, and even then you aren't guaranteed a kill.

From what I have read and know of the GAR-8, the DCS version isn't too terribly far off from it.

So it's probably less about you and your performance than you think.

[Reflected]

AI-s are like UFO-s. The rules of physics don`t apply to them, they get instant energy out of nowhere. To make matters worse, they probably have a simplistic DM too, so unless you shoot off a wing, they will keep chasing you smoking and leaking. This is what happened to me yesterday, when 3 wrecks of a MIG-15 followed my intact Sabre back to base.

[NeilWillis]

Use guns against fighters, and the GAR-8 against larger lumbering targets like transports of bombers.

 

In a straight Sabre/Mig-15 encounter, they're best left behind because of the extra drag, and the low P/K.