MK 108 Shells too slow

[9.JG27 DavidRed]

Did you guys find another source beside http://www.eeoda.de/2008/0804_FB1_MunMK108.pdf related to the shells characteristics?

 

Kinetic energy is related to the velocity which is related to the distance of travel of the shell.

 

When I shoot with the MK 108 I shoot way within 100m from the target and 20 m/s means a lot when you have to land 1 M-Brandgranatpatrone or 2 or 3 on the target, from 50m, pulling 4 Gs... Does this make any sense to you or I'm being way off?

 

 

in dcs, there is definitely a big difference whether you hit at 50, 100 or 200 or higher distance. you must be a good shot with the 108 to hit anything above 200, but even if you hit, its then lacking the effect you get at closer distance. the farther the target is, the less severe the effects of our 108 will be.

[amazingme]

@amazing: First of all I am sorry for being a bit of a dick to you in the first place. But you gotta admit as well that you provoked that... So lets get this crap settled, OK?

 

Don't worry man, I don't get upset outta nothing.. So everything is fine here. ;)

 

I, and probably others too, must know how ED implemented all the things that we were arguing about INTO the SIM.. That's all.

[amazingme]

in dcs, there is definitely a big difference whether you hit at 50, 100 or 200 or higher distance. you must be a good shot with the 108 to hit anything above 200, but even if you hit, its then lacking the effect you get at closer distance. the farther the target is, the less severe the effects of our 108 will be.

 

Yes, but let's bear in mind that those are shells and not bullets, so the damage should be the same regardless of the distance, hence the impact force, otherwise, it's the deformation of the materials which must to be modelled also in the sim..

[rel4y]

I am glad you accept my apology! No bad feelings and a friendlier discussion for us all! :)

[amazingme]

Happy New Year! :)

[amazingme]

I am glad you accept my apology! No bad feelings and a friendlier discussion for us all! :)

 

Better, let's kick some ponies and spits asses!! :pilotfly:

[9.JG27 DavidRed]

Yes, but let's bear in mind that those are shells and not bullets, so the damage should be the same regardless of the distance, hence the impact force, otherwise, it's the deformation of the materials which must to be modelled also in the sim..

I agree.thats what i would expect in real life. But in dcs the distance has a big influence on the effects

[rel4y]

I have to correct myself on the MK108 dispersion. I initially thought the dispersion (aircraft mounted) was 1.5 MOA at 100 m but it is actually 1.5 ‰ at 100 m.

 

1.5 MOA at 100 m = 1.5 * sin (1/60)° * 100 m = 4.36 cm

1.5 ‰ at 100 m = 0.0015 * 100 m = 15 cm

 

So the dispersion is higher than I thought initially.

The difference for delta 40 m/s (500 vs 540 m/s) is 1 MOA at 100m, so 67% of the gun dispersion at that range.

 

So obviously that percentage is not valid anymore and the actual percentage is 29%. Which strengthens the points established during the discussion that a higher v0 would not really benefit in a better trajectory, but predominantly in improved time of flight.

[amazingme]

At 500m, the distance between the bullets (one travelling with 500 and one with 540m/s) is 40m, more or less, at 200m would be ~15m. Don't you think it's significant?

[razo+r]

at 500m, 40 m difference, somehow it's a difference but somehow it's doesn't sound too much

 

but for close combat it would be some change, at least a bit

[Little_D]

Hi gents,

 

i think it makes a big impact on lead, also this gun down for the Mk108 in the .lua is a problem, as you cant realy aim as you should. An other question is, why we dont have the historical loadout in the MK108 as written in the "Schießfiebel" from 1944, side 32.

 

MK108: 1x Mine + 1x Brandgranate

 

regards

 

Little_D

[DefaultFace]

40m is about 4 plane lengths... not really negligible... however as we already discovered the v0s seem to be correct anyway so.....

 

@Little D good question.... ask ED. rel4y already has a bug report open on this. Linked somewhere in the first few pages of this thread i believe.

[razo+r]

post #4 is something about the Minengeschoss and Brandgranate

[rel4y]

Might be correct that its angled slightly downwards.

 

The engine of the 109 was angled slightly downwards in real life as well. The barrel should be in line with the holllow hub. So might be just that. I dont know what the reference grid is though. I checked the trajectory some time ago and it is pretty much on the point.

 

40m higher v0 doesnt translate to 40m difference at 500m, more to ~30m. Still enough. But since the v0 is right in respect to the sources we have, it doesnt really matter.

 

Correct loadout for 44 would be either only M-Brandgranatpatrone or mix of M-Granatpatrone (with or without tracer) and Brandgranatpatrone. Yo-Yo has already confirmed they are looking into fixing this.

[Solty]

Might be correct that its angled slightly downwards.

 

 

 

40m higher v0 doesnt translate to 40m difference at 500m, more to ~30m. Still enough. But since the v0 is right in respect to the sources we have, it doesnt really matter.

 

Correct loadout for 44 would be either only M-Brandgranatpatrone or mix of M-Granatpatrone (with or without tracer) and Brandgranatpatrone. Yo-Yo has already confirmed they are looking into fixing this.

 

They are probably going to change that with the DM update, as it would be probably nearly meaningless in the current state. I hope they'll dothe same with .50cal M8 API ammo. Time will tell.