3rd Parties - confindence in

[nrgized]

Well there is no point talking to you about it anymore then because you cant decide what you want to argue about, now you are on to communication... so ramble on.

 

Bravo sir!

[NineLine]

I think these are some valid complaints. Particularly the complaint of persistent bugs not being fixed... the 3rd party forums are littered with them. Some are fixed but the vast majority of legitimate complaints are not addressed or fixed. I will say that I don't think ED isn't selective about 3rd parties, I just think they select very poorly. There have been some great examples that I will avoid citing so we can stay out of the personal side of things.

 

So you are suggesting that they have somehow turned down good 3rd Parties and only added bad ones? Perhaps a little biased I think. Anyways. I think all the 3rd parties have potential, some of them are struggling a little more than anyone wants to see, but dumping on them doesnt really see like the best approach to seeing them succeed.

[nrgized]

So you are suggesting that they have somehow turned down good 3rd Parties and only added bad ones? Perhaps a little biased I think. Anyways. I think all the 3rd parties have potential, some of them are struggling a little more than anyone wants to see, but dumping on them doesnt really see like the best approach to seeing them succeed.

 

 

 

Let me go convince someone to let me cut there lawn for 60 bucks and spend the next year plus doing it.

 

See if they don't start *dumping on me* when I don't return phone calls and when I do respond I tell them it's a work it progress yo, it's to be expected.

 

 

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[Gladman]

PR has always been an issue with ED. We all know the products for the most part are very good but to suggest that years of "early access", or years of listed issues that can be fixed with simple code changes it acceptable simply exasperates the issue.

[NineLine]

PR has always been an issue with ED. We all know the products for the most part are very good but to suggest that years of "early access", or years of listed issues that can be fixed with simple code changes it acceptable simply exasperates the issue.

 

Nobody said years of early access should be acceptable.

[aaron886]

Yes to your statement. Again, I don't want to name specific groups. That's... ungentlemanly. Certain groups never produced anything, while other groups that looked to be quite promising were edged out or ignored outright in attempts to gain 3rd party status and SDK access. Nobody is "dumping on" anyone here, history speaks for itself in these cases. Besides, this is like parenting - if you give every kid a trophy just for existing, how does any child learn self-awareness?

 

Edit: I appreciate that you're going into full PR Battle-Mode here, Sithspawn, but it would look better on ED were you (well, I really mean ED at large, not you personally) to approach these community-raised issues with a level of concern/introspection instead.

Edited May 2, 2017 by aaron886

[cichlidfan]

Is it feature complete, not bug free, but are all the features in place, that usually qualifies it for release.

 

By that definition the Huey should not be out of early access.

[NineLine]

Let me go convince someone to let me cut there lawn for 60 bucks and spend the next year plus doing it.

 

See if they don't start *dumping on me* when I don't return phone calls and when I do respond I tell them it's a work it progress yo, it's to be expected.

 

 

 

If its not acceptable to you, then you have the power not to support that 3rd party in the future. There are 2 courses of action here, its not rocket science. But you are not promoting communication by attacking them every chance you get, sorry you don't get that.

 

If someone abuses me in my job, I have every right to end that conversation no matter what they are bringing in as a company or client. Thats how that works. Abuse is not how you fix an issue. Just because you are on the internet and dont see the person you are hard one doesnt make it right.

[NineLine]

By that definition the Huey should not be out of early access.

 

Why?

[Gladman]

But years of "early access" is allowed.

[NineLine]

 

Edit: I appreciate that you're going into full PR Battle-Mode here, Sithspawn, but it would look better on ED were you (well, I really mean ED at large, not you personally) to approach these community-raised issues with a level of concern/introspection instead.

 

Well it would be better if people decided what they really want. We have a number of issues that are out of ED's control right now. Nobody can wave a magic wand and fix some open sores with some 3rd parties. There is a lot of effort going on internally to mature the 3rd party system, and some of the older companies might have slowed down because of those tighter guidelines, but I am not really sure what everyones end game is in this, when even the Mirage isnt good enough, and I actually thought RAZBAM was doing good work... even BST is open for shots when I think they produce some quality modules... I am at a lose what you guys really want other than to vent.

[aaron886]

There are 2 courses of action here, its not rocket science.

This statement is belittling, and therefore I think against the spirit of 1.2

 

Abuse is not how you fix an issue. Just because you are on the internet and dont see the person you are hard one doesnt make it right.

I don't think he's being abusive. Pretty amped up, but definitely not personally abusing anyone. I think the worst thing he's done is call 3rd parties "weekend warriors."

 

Well it would be better if people decided what they really want. We have a number of issues that are out of ED's control right now. Nobody can wave a magic wand and fix some open sores with some 3rd parties. There is a lot of effort going on internally to mature the 3rd party system, and some of the older companies might have slowed down because of those tighter guidelines, but I am not really sure what everyones end game is in this, when even the Mirage isnt good enough, and I actually thought RAZBAM was doing good work... even BST is open for shots when I think they produce some quality modules... I am at a lose what you guys really want other than to vent.

Quite understood. In some ways I think ED has bitten off more than it can chew with 3rd Parties, but of course with good intent. And the result has overall been great for the community. I love my F-5E! Look, I think you're trying to come up with a logical rebuttal to everything here, and it's causing you to miss the point. Nobody's raving madly about how they hate 3rd Parties, the point is that there are serious quality control and customer support issues that are giving customers concern. There are 3rd parties that have over-promised, 3rd parties that are not being responsive to concerns, and 3rd parties that are struggling to deliver promises made years ago. It's just a matter of fact, unfortunately. This thread is valuable to ED in that it might bring awareness to or confirm the existence of concerns in that area.

Edited May 2, 2017 by aaron886

[cichlidfan]

Why?

 

Multicrew would be the big answer but I see the product page has been changed and the itemized list that included it is no longer is present.

 

However, it is still listed on Belsimtek's website.

[NineLine]

But years of "early access" is allowed.

 

What should they do, I assume this is about the Hawk. What would you have ED do now, VEAO knows they need to fix problems, what would you like to happen apart from VEAO getting it done?

[NineLine]

Multicrew would be the big answer but I see the product page has been changed and the itemized list that included it is no longer is present.

 

It is there, and specified that it would be included in a future update.

[Silver_Dragon]

Folks, remember with the 3rd parties need ED improve and build some features to get full functionality to some modules. Other point, build modules on DCS World has has not easy and require years and year of learning and stop and go situations.

[NineLine]

This statement is belittling, and therefore I think against the spirit of 1.2

 

 

I don't think he's being abusive. Pretty amped up, but definitely not personally abusing anyone. I think the worst thing he's done is call 3rd parties "weekend warriors."

 

You are missing the point... the first statement is that you can chose not to support future endeavors of 3rd parties you dont think do good work, or you can jump on board at first chance for early access.... not rocket science.

 

 

Second statement isnt about this thread, its about the attacks these guys go through not only here but all over the net by people that think trashing people is the way to fix problems, then complain when they dont respond as much.

[NineLine]

This all from the first page of searching the BST forum for "dim"

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=176978&highlight=dim

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=153570&highlight=dim

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=155226&highlight=dim

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=149677&highlight=dim

 

PS this is fixed internally.

[nrgized]

If its not acceptable to you, then you have the power not to support that 3rd party in the future. There are 2 courses of action here, its not rocket science. But you are not promoting communication by attacking them every chance you get, sorry you don't get that.

 

 

 

If someone abuses me in my job, I have every right to end that conversation no matter what they are bringing in as a company or client. Thats how that works. Abuse is not how you fix an issue. Just because you are on the internet and dont see the person you are hard one doesnt make it right.

 

 

 

People generally flip out when they feel ignored and don't have the ability to rectify the situation. Go ahead and tell me how that's wrong or immature of them. That's the put your head in the sand and ignore the issue response.

 

ED is partially to blame for the discontent of various 3rd parties.

 

You can't test a module before purchase.

They don't allow refunds.

They allow developers to do various things without consequences.

 

If you find yourself in a situation where a decent percentage of your user base has pitchforks in hand. The last thing you should be doing is telling people that they shouldn't be harsh. You need to be looking at why the hell the situation is happening and fix that above all else. If you do the pitchforks go away on there own.

 

 

 

 

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[Gladman]

What should they do, I assume this is about the Hawk. What would you have ED do now, VEAO knows they need to fix problems, what would you like to happen apart from VEAO getting it done?

 

You can't have it both ways Sith. You said its not acceptable yourself so what would you have ED do? Be realistic.

 

As pointed out, your beyond rational discussion so there is no point in continuing.

 

In the end, I think all people want is an up to date list of work in progress and a system in place to ensure years do not go buy before issues are completed. TALK TO THE PEOPLE SITH. Thats what I want, and I think its what a lot of people want. This is what ED is working on, this is what ED is having "3rd party A" working on, and if your item is 5 down on the list, at least you know its being looked at and the other issues take priority. At least we would have the ability to understand where the product we pay for is going. JUST TALK TO THE PEOPLE.

Edited May 2, 2017 by Gladman

[nrgized]

What should they do, I assume this is about the Hawk. What would you have ED do now, VEAO knows they need to fix problems, what would you like to happen apart from VEAO getting it done?

 

 

 

Have the module pulled off the store that's what I would do for starters.

 

 

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[NineLine]

that's wrong or immature of them.

 

So your response is that being wrong or immature towards them is they way to fix it?

[cichlidfan]

It is there, and specified that it would be included in a future update.

 

The current Huey product page. The bullet list is gone.

 

 

As for the later update. It's been four years and four more modules and that update is still pending.

Edited May 2, 2017 by cichlidfan

[aaron886]

trashing people

I'm sorry, I don't see that happening here. I see some users that are concerned about quality of a product they paid for being shouted down by a person in an administrative role. It looks very bad on ED and is not the first instance of this occurring on this forum. I've got to call it like I see it here in hopes that ED will notice.

 

In a few pages of double- and triple-posts, you managed to tell nrgized (a concerned customer) that he was not worth responding to, being abusive, and that the solution to his concerns is "not rocket science." Nobody is responsible for reading between the lines of your posts and understanding it from your perspective: you are a visible representative of Eagle Dynamics and need to transmit your intentions clearly.

[NineLine]

You can't have it both ways Sith. You said its not acceptable yourself so what you you have ED do? Be realistic.

 

As pointed out, your beyond rational discussion so there is no point in continuing.

 

In the end, I think all people want is an up to date list of work in progress and a system in place to ensure years do not go buy before issues are completed. TALK TO THE PEOPLE SITH. Thats what I want, and I think its what a lot of people want. This is what ED is working on, this is what ED is having "3rd party A" working on, and if your item is 5 down on the list, at least you know its being looked at and the other issues take priority. At least we would have the ability to understand where the product we pay for is going. JUST TALK TO THE PEOPLE.

 

I cant speak for VEAO. Personally I can totally understand peoples frustration TOTALLY. What is ED doing... have you seen any other products from VEAO? Its probably a good reason why. I cant say that for sure, but I would assume they need to fix what they have before getting anything else out, least makes sense to me.

 

The thread is about confidence in 3rd parties. I cant tell you what my personally feelings are on each one. I can tell you that a number of them are working hard to fix issues. I know there are some I would personally be leery of jumping head first into again.

 

ED cant control things like the splits we have seen. And assuming that its ED's fault for not catching that before doesnt work either.

 

I am trying to tell you, the best approach is to talk with your wallets, thats what I started out saying. If you dont want early access, dont buy early access, you will find out pretty quick if the module is something you want to get into or not from others.