F-15 Radar

[probad]

and i have excellent situational awareness in acec*mbat???

 

please don't use video games as a point of reference when talking about realism.

[DCS FIGHTER PILOT]

Ok, the point being is that i shouldn't have to fight both the radar and the bandit at the same time. I also might add that this is a fight the radar wins every single time even in single player. It's frankly a joke. Good for you if you don't have trouble with it.

[GGTharos]

(probably better than IRL)

 

Nope ... +20nm minimum head-on up/down and that's for the pre-MSIP radar :)

 

With 40 X-band radars operating in a single mission,

 

But they have some 40 channels to play with :)

 

Ok, maybe half that.

[GGTharos]

Maybe the bandit knows how to work you ...

 

I have excellent situational awareness in BMS, however in DCS that goes right out the door. I feel as if I am fighting the radar and not the plane. For instance, I could see the target on radar today but could not lock him up, I would constantly loose lock for some reason. AND YES, I know how to work the PRF's and TWS AND RWS and all that crap.

[Beamscanner]

Nope ... +20nm minimum head-on up/down and that's for the pre-MSIP radar :)

I've read that its not as good as it was sold, and I typically don't trust brochures. But maybe it's better than believed :dunno: I find it hard to believe a first generation analog pulse Doppler radar can pick up a flanker at 100nm. not saying it cant, just doubt it.

 

 

What I do know to be factual is that those cavity traveling wave tube amplifiers get weaker with age.

 

But they have some 40 channels to play with :)

 

Ok, maybe half that.

 

20 channels doesn't mean 20 frequencies. HPRF waveforms are ambiguous to range as you may know. Thus these older radars obtain range with HPRF using FM ranging (similar to FMCW techniques). That is, "one channel" is occupying a wide bandwidth. Not to mention any intra-pulse modulation used to increase range resolution, such a CHIRP or Phase code. (George W. Stimson, intro to airborne radar)

 

Never the less, real life systems have to deal with lots of interference and ambient noise not experienced in game.:)

Edited August 2, 2017 by Beamscanner

[GGTharos]

I've read that its not as good as it was sold, and I typically don't trust brochures. But maybe it's better than believed :dunno: I find it hard to believe a first generation analog pulse Doppler radar can pick up a flanker at 100nm. not saying it cant, just doubt it.

 

Test results of the original radar against a T-33, max range for the test was 85nm ... it could be longer too, but I don't know if that was max detection or the longest distance the test was started at.

 

In the HAVE DOUGHNUT documents the F-4's radar picked up the MiG-21 60nm+ away, but that was simply the longest separation they ever used for their tests. It follows that the APG-63 should out-perform this.

 

Never the less, real life systems have to deal with lots of interference and ambient noise not experienced in game.:)

 

I'm aware. And there is symbology to show how degraded the radar is in various ways as well. :)

[Frostie]

I have excellent situational awareness in BMS, however in DCS that goes right out the door. I feel as if I am fighting the radar and not the plane. For instance, I could see the target on radar today but could not lock him up, I would constantly loose lock for some reason. AND YES, I know how to work the PRF's and TWS AND RWS and all that crap.

 

The thing with BMS is you more often than not face AI which are predictable and don't try to outwit you or hide from your emissions.

Though I do like the AI in BMS.

 

The best way would be to show your problem with a track or better still review your track and workout how this happened. It's all good knowing PRF, TWS and RWS etc. but the critical one is elevation, beam angle and understanding refresh rate.

Edited August 2, 2017 by Frostie

[JINX_1391]

The best way would be to show your problem with a track or better still review your track and workout how this happened.

 

This.

 

If you can provide a track or a video of the issue then it can be analyzed. Until then it is theory and all that can be given is advice on how to work the radar. If a problem does exist, proving evidence is the only way the community can help identify it based on what you've (DCS FIGHTER PILOT) provided so far. We're all here willing and waiting to help.

[Vatikus]

In the HAVE DOUGHNUT documents the F-4's radar picked up the MiG-21 60nm+ away, but that was simply the longest separation they ever used for their tests. It follows that the APG-63 should out-perform this.

You must be mixing Combat Tree ...

If you check the mig21 trials, the radar ranges are as shown in attachement:

[GGTharos]

COMBAT TREE was not mentioned at all.

[Vatikus]

COMBAT TREE was not mentioned at all.

I didnt say it was... only that you could be mixing it... the image I have attached is from HAVE DOUGHNUT publication.

[GGTharos]

You're right about one thing: We're not reading the same document. The tests I'm reading about were conducted with a look down/shoot-down radar.

[Vatikus]

You are right that I was talking about F4E and D. I have rechecked for F4J and it could indeed detect at ranges you mentioned IF mig21 was closing hot with good Vc. But the picture changed quite fast if mig changed AA.

[GGTharos]

I have a couple of radar diagrams elsewhere that show the opposite - but, radars being complex things ... who knows :)

[Cool Breeze]

Well it's nice to know that we will have to be within 25 or so miles to get a good read with Belsimtek's new F-4.

 

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