Upgrading Titan X (m) to 1080ti a good idea?

[Digitalvole]

Hello, long time lurker first time poster...

 

I was hoping some kind soul could help me work out if it's worth upgrading from a Titan X (maxwell) to a 1080ti.

 

I'm playing in vr with an i7 4930k @4.3ghz and 32gb of 2400mhz ram (is that a thing?) and am reasonably happy with performance (love the uh1h) but I get judders in the a10c, often enough to make me a little miffed and break immersion but still playable. (Playing 1.5 and 2 NTTR)

 

I would love to be ale to get the Normandy map and the harrier but am doubtful Normandy would be playable if I'm getting the judders in NTTR

 

I'm not expecting the 1080ti to enable everything to be set on high with a pd of 2, but maybe smooth at 1.5pd and setting medium/high (some AA would be nice too, if poss)

 

I've been googling and searching away on here like no ones business but haven't been able to find much info comparing the two cards specifically for vr in dcs (probably not very surprising.)

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated, thank you :)

[fitness88]

Hello, long time lurker first time poster...

 

I was hoping some kind soul could help me work out if it's worth upgrading from a Titan X (maxwell) to a 1080ti.

 

I'm playing in vr with an i7 4930k @4.3ghz and 32gb of 2400mhz ram (is that a thing?) and am reasonably happy with performance (love the uh1h) but I get judders in the a10c, often enough to make me a little miffed and break immersion but still playable. (Playing 1.5 and 2 NTTR)

 

I would love to be ale to get the Normandy map and the harrier but am doubtful Normandy would be playable if I'm getting the judders in NTTR

 

I'm not expecting the 1080ti to enable everything to be set on high with a pd of 2, but maybe smooth at 1.5pd and setting medium/high (some AA would be nice too, if poss)

 

I've been googling and searching away on here like no ones business but haven't been able to find much info comparing the two cards specifically for vr in dcs (probably not very surprising.)

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated, thank you :)

 

 

It was my understanding the Titan X is an upgrade from the 1080ti, at least as it is listed in Nvidia Driver Downloads.

 

 

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Edited December 4, 2017 by fitness88

[hansangb]

I'm not sure if anyone can help. Most folks who upgraded from Titan X(maxwell) probably did it "just because" I don't know that I *needed* the 1080ti, but I figured it had better everything except 1G of less memory. But I believe it was faster memory.

 

I didn't have any problems running VR when I had the TitanX(m). But to be honest, I might have replaced my Z170 MB with 4709K to current spec when I got the 1080Ti. I just don't remember now.

 

Also, DCS very much CPU bound, so you may have to pair up the 1080Ti with a faster processor.

[boedha68]

Save your money and wait for the next versions in 2018!!!!

 

 

More power for the same or less money.

 

 

Did you read the announcements from ED? 2.5 should give some more FPS. ED gonna use Vulcan API in the future a major FPS boost!

 

 

I wait for this before i decide too upgrade.

Edited December 4, 2017 by boedha68

[Digitalvole]

Thank you for the speedy replies, much appreciated:)

 

@fitness88 Yeah I have the older one (got it a couple of years ago) it's been great but doubt I'll ever spend that much on a GPs again.

 

@hansangb Thank you for the info. I thought that might be the case, though was rather hoping I could get away with just getting a ti as replacing a mobo and cpu is well beyond me. That being said, do you have any cpu recommendations?

 

@boedha68 This also seems like very sound advice, thank you.

 

:)

[hansangb]

Digitalvole,

7700K is obviously dropping in price because of the 8700K. So that may be the sweet spot. 7700K requires Z270 which also should be dropping in price.

 

As wait until 2018 advice, why not wait until 2019? 2020? There's opportunity cost to consider. But waiting for 2.5 is sage advice. I don't believe there will be eye popping improvements in FPS though. I mean NTTR is based on mostly 2.5 technology right? It sounds like 2.5 was mostly to bring Caucus into the fold. As for Vulkan, again, it was mentioned in passing and I don't know when or if it will make that big of a difference.

 

So to recap, wait until 2.5 (few weeks away) and decide on 8700K or 7700K. I would not recommend Ryzen because it's not more threads you need, it's the clock speed. And 8700K is much better for gaming. IMHO.

[Digitalvole]

Thanks again hansangb! Just made an inquiry into a 7700k new mobo and 16gb of ddr4 ram (currently have 32gb of ddr3) and it seems affordable and they will install it for nought which is nice. So seeing as its xmas I'm going to throw in the 1080ti as well, just don't tell my other half as we are supposed to be getting double glazing next year, yawn ;)

Whoop whoop!

[fitness88]

Thanks again hansangb! Just made an inquiry into a 7700k new mobo and 16gb of ddr4 ram (currently have 32gb of ddr3) and it seems affordable and they will install it for nought which is nice. So seeing as its xmas I'm going to throw in the 1080ti as well, just don't tell my other half as we are supposed to be getting double glazing next year, yawn ;)

Whoop whoop!

 

 

 

I think you will be happy with it. I also have a 7700k, 32 ddr4 [disabled file swapping, now a bit snappier], SSD [moved games to hard drive with no appreciable performance loss], 1080...I run Oculus very smoothly.

Edited December 4, 2017 by fitness88

[Digitalvole]

Yeah me too, can't wait! Do ya reckon it's worth going for 32gb of ram or will 16 of the new stuff be as good as 32 of the old?

[fitness88]

Yeah me too, can't wait! Do ya reckon it's worth going for 32gb of ram or will 16 of the new stuff be as good as 32 of the old?

 

 

 

I started my Alienware system with 16gigs because they didn't have the extra 16 at the time. 16 should be all you need, I never seem to use up more than 7gigs when I'm running DCS my most intensive app. As a result of lots of extra ram available I turned off file swapping also know as virtual memory. This prevents the computer from saving data to the hard drive/SSD and puts it directly into memory. In the old days when no one had enough memory this was a way to get around the memory shortage. Of course memory is much faster than a hard drive or a SSD and also saves the read/write to the SSD. As mentioned I find my overall performance got a bit snappier over an already great running system.

I'm not sure you'll be able to tangibly see any difference with the extra 16gigs because it will probably not be used unless you do lots more than I do. Turning off the virtual memory if you wanted to could still be done with 16...try it and see how it performs before you spend your hard earned $ or monitor your memory usage to see if the extra 16 is warranted.

Edited December 4, 2017 by fitness88

[hansangb]

DDR4 prices are coming down. So makes sure your 16GB is on two sticks total and not four. In other words, if you have four banks on the MB for memory, don't use up all four for 16GB. If you decide to upgrade to 32GB, you'll have to start over!

 

And to fitness88's point, I as assuming you already had SSD. If not, that's the *first thing* you have to invest in.

[fitness88]

DDR4 prices are coming down. So makes sure your 16GB is on two sticks total and not four. In other words, if you have four banks on the MB for memory, don't use up all four for 16GB. If you decide to upgrade to 32GB, you'll have to start over!

 

And to fitness88's point, I as assuming you already had SSD. If not, that's the *first thing* you have to invest in.

 

 

 

Yes I have both SSD and HD but with only a 256 SSD I was quickly running out of room so I moved DCS over to the HD running with little difference with the exception the loading time became a bit longer.

Actually it's good to put 16 x 2 sticks of ram to take advantage of dual channel memory. Then if you want to expand you will still have another 2 slots to max out at 64igig.

Edited December 5, 2017 by fitness88

[=Pedro=]

1. 128Gb SSD for DCS World - after merge will be well enough

2. 128Gb SSD for Windows and most important applications

3. 1 or 2 Tb HDD for all the rest

4. Set the good configuration in DCS graphic options & Nvidia Control Panel!

 

Definately wait for the DCS World 2.5 before buying a new GPU and dont worry about your CPU is good enough!

 

S!

[Digitalvole]

Cor blimey you guys are helpful, thanks a lot!

 

RAM advice has been noted, and I'll have to have a little think about that. As for another ssd I must say I agree with fitness88, I've moved my v2 dcs from my ssd to my normal hd due to space limitations and other than loading times didn't notice much difference either.

 

Thanks Pedro, sensible advice and probably the right thing to do is wait and see what 2.5 is like. But how long will that be (never been very good at waiting, could get hit by a bus tomorrow;) ) and do you think it will it make much difference to performance?

As for my cpu I don't really know but I get the feeling it could be better but it could be worse kind of thing. I'm willing to spend some money to improve my vr flying experience cause when it works nicely: WOW!

 

Thanks again :)

[fitness88]

Cor blimey you guys are helpful, thanks a lot!

 

RAM advice has been noted, and I'll have to have a little think about that. As for another ssd I must say I agree with fitness88, I've moved my v2 dcs from my ssd to my normal hd due to space limitations and other than loading times didn't notice much difference either.

 

Thanks Pedro, sensible advice and probably the right thing to do is wait and see what 2.5 is like. But how long will that be (never been very good at waiting, could get hit by a bus tomorrow;) ) and do you think it will it make much difference to performance?

As for my cpu I don't really know but I get the feeling it could be better but it could be worse kind of thing. I'm willing to spend some money to improve my vr flying experience cause when it works nicely: WOW!

 

Thanks again :)

 

 

 

Save your money for Oculus Rift CV2

[Digitalvole]

think how many buses there are between now and then! ;)

[uri_ba]

the X(m) should be same HP as the 1080Ti (albit less memory then the Ti).

 

I don't think that you'll get any extra boost from the upgrade.

 

I would check some system matrics, just to make sure you are not CPU bound from some odd reason.

 

In addition, you can try and drop some of the more FPS intensive stuff..

 

shadows to OFF if you are CPU bound.

and Water to MED or lower if you are GPU bound, the reflections added in HIGH (compared to LOW) is a real FPS killer in low altiture.

[Digitalvole]

Thanks for the advice uri_ba.

 

I had my weekly ration of free time yesterday so was straight onto dcs, and it really did make up my mind. Huey is ace, zooming around (as much as a Huey can zoom) in 1.5 but the a10 in dcs 2 was chugging and crashing (anyone else get black screen crashes in vr?.) though only thing I have on high is textures the rest is low or off. It's at the point where if I turn things down more such as pd and deferred shading I'm not satisfied with how it looks.

 

I just want to turn it on and it works, is smooth and looks quite nice and am ok with spending some money to make that happen. When you only get a few hours flight time a week (if I'm lucky) I don't really want to spend it in the settings or rebooting because it's crashed again.

 

All that being said if I was sensible I would hold fire on the gfx card for now and see what the cpu upgrade does first, but sadly I'm not very sensible :D

[BeastyBaiter]

Bit late to this party but I recently moved to an i7-8700k + GTX 1080 TI + 16GB DDR4 at 3200 MHz. This is, for all intents and purposes, the absolute best possible rig at any price for DCS. You may be surprised at how the game performs with even this system, as it is far from perfect (especially in 1.5).

 

DCS 2.x over NTTR is very smooth at fairly high detail settings with 1.4 pixel density. Dodging buildings/trees over Vegas does drop it to between 45 and 90 fps, but everywhere else it's locked at 90 fps in every aircraft I've tried, including the Harrier, Huey, Ka-50 and Mirage. I have not tried the A-10C yet with the new system. CPU and GPU usage tend to mirror each other I've noticed, so they are well matched. Over Vegas itself dodging light poles and signs along the strip, both are completely maxed with fps around 45. Everywhere else, 90 fps is typical with both CPU and GPU usage droping down substantially. So having a proper mission isn't an issue once away from Vegas. MP also works well (F99th).

 

In DCS 1.5, it's a very different story. I don't think I've ever seen GPU usage exceed 50% while FPS is often below 20 on the same settings I use in NTTR. The reason is the single thread performance of the 8700k is approximately 1/4th what it needs to be to hold 90 fps along the coastal areas of the Caucuses in the 1.5 engine in VR. Inland a bit or at high altitude, 90 fps is normal, it's just the coastal town areas that are the problem. Interestingly, towns themselves aren't the problem as major towns further inland don't typically drop FPS all that much, certainly not below 45 fps. Heading out over the Black Sea also sees CPU usage drop to next to nothing, allowing for massive battles with 90 fps locked.

 

 

My recommendation for you based on the above:

 

So with that wall of text out of the way, I think your system is actually fairly balanced as is. If you get a 1080 TI, it won't be utilized in DCS 1.5 due to CPU usage (anything over a GTX 1060 or RX 480 is pointless imho since the CPU can't keep up). If looking at NTTR, then to get the most out of a GTX 1080 TI, you'll also have to crank an Intel or Ryzen CPU to 5GHz or more. Ryzen won't hit much above 4.0 GHz and 5.0 on an Intel is more than a little dodgy in terms of voltage and thermals. My 8700k will do it without too much trouble (no delid required), but I seem to have a silicone lottery winner going by what everyone else is getting.

 

In regards to RAM, there is no point in more than 16GB for NTTR or 1.5 at this time. I don't know off the top of my head what ram usage is exactly with the 1080 TI (11GB VRAM) or my previous RX 480 8GB, but it is between 8 and 16GB with windows and other crap in the background. Outside of professional workloads, I don't know of anything that will break a 16GB RAM limit. Having 11GB of VRAM also helps reduce RAM usage in some games, not sure if DCS is one but I have noticed it will chew through an awful lot of VRAM with PD stepped up. Off the top of my head, I think 1.4 PD at my settings uses around 10GB of VRAM. Trying 1.7 PD in 2.x is a bad idea, it hits FPS pretty hard. In 1.5 it doesn't impact FPS at all,I think I cranked it to 3.0 once for a laugh and still had a CPU bottleneck.:lol:

 

As for Vulkan, a properly multi-threaded Vulkan graphics engine would allow DCS to run locked at 90 fps in VR with an appropriate GPU with any quad core CPU made in the last 10 years. Even those $100 Athlon II's from 6 years ago (I had one, it sucked). But I wouldn't count on that update happening anytime soon. No details were given and it took somewhere around 3-4 years to move from DX9 to DX11. That's a relatively easy transition compared to DX11 to Vulkan, the move to Vulkan requires a complete rewrite of the graphics engine from scratch. I look forwards to such a transition, but I suspect it's going to be a long wait. This type of thing is not easy. Incidentally, I'm learning Vulkan right now. It's, umm, complicated...:juggle:

Edited December 11, 2017 by BeastyBaiter

[Digitalvole]