ECM Blinking

[GGTharos]

I tried once but it started smoking at 10 PRF ... ;D

[Guest IguanaKing]

Really?!!! I can get to 20 CPS before my finger starts to smoke. Sheesh...amateur!!! J/K :smilewink:

[GGTharos]

:ranting: Training/practice exploiter!

[Guest IguanaKing]

Yup, that's me! My on-line ID is Chuck Norris. :D

 

Is it my imagination, or have I seen somewhere on this forum a utility that allows a player to operate a SAM site? Just wondering, because I have been finding out recently that AI SAM sites are pretty easy to beat.

[GGTharos]

No you haven't :(

 

I have asked for such a capability but it won't be tehre for a while if at all. It would indeed be -so- much better tohave a player-controlled IADS ...

[Guest IguanaKing]

Rats!!! Must have been a dream. It would be so cool if an on-line player could run a SAM site. He'd have to gamble between making a max range shot (like the AI does) which hits jack s**t, or making a high-PK shot without eating an AGM. Limited armament would affect him, just like it does everybody else. I have a dream. :D

[Prophet]

In any case, I've said ... if this is a cheat, so is maddogging missiles at long range, and flying invisi-migs. ;)

 

Yes because maddoging requires a macro, and we know the LOD with MiG is due to a macro also....

[Guest IguanaKing]

...and carrying AGM-65s on stations 4 and 8 on the A-10 is nowhere near reality either. Is that a cheat? Or is it a game bug?

[Guest IguanaKing]

Enough said on the subject before I loose my cool....:mad:

 

But, the problem is in the game and how it handles radar/ECM, its a point that GG brought up a couple of days ago...and it is true even today. Since I usually just compare signals to a reference signal on an oscilloscope, I have forgotten the actual period of an ATC radar pulse, but IIRC, its somewhere between 21 and 45 microseconds, depending on mode. Now...do you want to do the math on that and work out how many times your finger would have to hit the button every second to make even the slightest impact?

[Guest IguanaKing]

My point is...IRL, the scripts wouldn't matter, since the keyboard clock isn't as fast as the PRF of a radar, so CH scripts are irrelevant. Its the game that needs fixing, not the employment techniques. :smilewink:

[Guest IguanaKing]

Who cares if employment techniques are at the grasp of everyone who flies LockOn? Don't you get it?!!! Its not the "cheats" that are the problem, its the game code that makes the "cheats" have a single, GD, bit of relevance in the electronic world. Again, we should be asking ED to address the problem that will close this gap, rather than getting pissed off at each other. :D

[OldFrankHog]

Im not sure blinking the ECM in game gives the same result then the ECM IRL that blinks by itself... What would be the point of having long or medium range missiles if it was IMPOSSIBLE to ever get a lock ??? Trash the amraam and put 8 sidewinders on your Eagle :P

[GGTharos]

Actually, given that the AMRAAM in the game is effectively shorter ranged than the 13nm burn through range ...

 

Im not sure blinking the ECM in game gives the same result then the ECM IRL that blinks by itself... What would be the point of having long or medium range missiles if it was IMPOSSIBLE to ever get a lock ??? Trash the amraam and put 8 sidewinders on your Eagle :P

[EricJ]

Im not sure blinking the ECM in game gives the same result then the ECM IRL that blinks by itself... What would be the point of having long or medium range missiles if it was IMPOSSIBLE to ever get a lock ??? Trash the amraam and put 8 sidewinders on your Eagle :P

 

It's not impossible, just takes you closing in to burn through, then "blinking" is irrelevant, or even constant jamming.

[Guest IguanaKing]

I think your not grasping here… People uses cheat codes in some aspect to show the dev, what it lacks. But I do blame the player that uses it on me… Shit hell, then lets lope all our planes… Shit issue not with the player but the game, it has flaws…

 

Yep I know it has dawm flaws, we know, like the rest of us bud. Reason why I'm posting my concerns.

 

Is this the mentality you want from the community? If so, then let me out of here....

 

LMFAO!!! I LOPE my A-10 just to give it some semblance of realism, and its to my detriment, since I can only carry 4 AGM-65Ds, or 2 AGM-65Ks, when I LOPE it to a realistic load. Again...its the friggin' game!!! I grasp just fine, bud, as I work with these systems every day IRL. A friggin' key macro, in the real world, wouldn't get you squat, except for you maybe feeling good about performing a useless action. I repeat, and if you don't grasp it, that's fine, but I'll say it again anyway...ECM blinking wouldn't do a GD thing IRL, even if you COULD do it, physically or mechanically. The only reason it does so in LOMAC is due to a fault in radar/ECM modeling. Fix the fault, and the cheat goes away. Is that clear enough? Or should I go into more detail?

[Guest IguanaKing]

Ummm...Kindred...I start to LOPE my A-10 by taking any and all AGM-65s off of stations 4 and 8. The aircraft, IRL, is not capable of carrying AGM-65s on ANY station other than 3 and 9. Want to carry more than 2 AGM-65Ks? The stock loadout in LOMAC allows you to carry 6 of them. IRL, you only carry 2, and that's what my LOPE mod allows, just a measly 2 AGM-65Ks, since there is no Maverick datalink to ANY station except 3 and 9, and the AGM-65K is too heavy to be carried on an LAU-88. So you get one per wing in my LOPE mod for the A-10.

 

You, on the other hand, are talking about LOPEing a missile to an aircraft that even the Russians have said isn't carried on the Russian flyable aircraft in LOMAC.

 

LMFAO!!! We're still talking about LOPE and payloads the Russians have said their aircraft don't carry? What is the point of some of you people? Is it realism? Nope...actions in this thread have proven you don't want realism, and LOPE is automatically a four-letter word for some of you, even though it is being used by some in the interest of realism. Is it fair play? Not sure about that one either. Let's define fair play, from now on, as your enemy always doing what you expect him to do and not exploiting tactical advantages. As Bill Cosby once said..."The Captain of the settlers won the toss against the British!...OK. The Captain of the settlers has elected to kickoff. He says, that he and his team can wear any color clothes that they want too...they can shoot from behind rocks, trees, and everywhere. He also says that your team, must wear red, and march in a straight line."

 

In short, please get a clue about realistic aircraft armament before carrying on too loudly about LOPE, many of us use it for good purposes. Remember, the guy who cheats does so because he lacks the skills to win within the rules of the game. The guy who goes off on a tangent, looking for the use of "cheats" by other people...well...he's actually not all that much better than the cheater himself. One guy uses a cheat to kick someone's ass...the other uses a cheat as an excuse for why he got his ass kicked. :D

[OldFrankHog]

Actually, given that the AMRAAM in the game is effectively shorter ranged than the 13nm burn through range ...

 

Sorry should have been more precise. I dont think IRL that the IRL ECM would make it impossible to lock IRL or fire IRL from greater distances else IRL no one would carry long or medium range missiles IRL.

[Guest IguanaKing]

Fine, no issues with Shep`s loadout. This is OT, this thread ain't nothing to do with lope...

 

Then, why did you mention LOPE? LOPE seems to be the "run home to mama" response of anybody so far who has wanted to bitch about ECM blinking. So, now that we have officially gotten the LOPE issue off the table...what is your issue with ECM blinking? Do you have any quantitative data on RF versus PRF in the game that you would like to share? Or can we just call this cheat a bug in the radar/ECM modeling? I can render a Buk site totally ineffective with a single AGM-65D, from 16,000', without ever once energizing my ALQ-119, or expending a single chaff or flare packet. How? By spending time observing how the AI IADS reacts to my presence. I improvise, I adapt, I overcome (to quote Clint Eastwood as Gunnery Sergeant Highway). So, if your airfield is guarded by a Buk, and you don't have effective fighter cover, just prepare to die before you go wheels up. Have I cheated? Nope. Just eliminated the heart of your airfield's air defense system. Granted, I won't be the one who kills you, but the follow-on fighters will when they don't have a SAM system to deal with. I guess I'm cheating if that ever happens though. :megalol:

[EricJ]

Have I cheated? Nope. Just eliminated the heart of your airfield's air defense system. Granted, I won't be the one who kills you, but the follow-on fighters will when they don't have a SAM system to deal with. I guess I'm cheating if that ever happens though. :megalol:

 

Yeah god forbid you have to use imagination and not "real world tactics", I mean using the vulnerabilities to your advantage, why that's unheard of! :D

 

I mean this topic has gone on this long and still there's not a quantitive thought to the whole "ECM Blinking" issue. Seriously I haven't figured out what the problem is, or what the point is, and that's just browsing this topic. I mean if my jammer could do that (I mean can it do that in real life?) and I knew I had some HOJ missiles pointed at me, you think I wouldn't do it? I mean once I knew I was blasting the hemisphere with jammer signals, and knew I had a HOJ missile on the way, wouldn't it be cool to like, turn off the jammer? Oh no, that's cheating too, and I'd do that on a server just to see if it actually broke the missile's lock. Oh silly me. Anyways, like anything else that has been debated and wasted time on, BAN IT FROM YOUR SERVERS, and life will go on. If you don't like it, don't allow it and stop wasting space and time on a topic that should have been dead long ago.

[Guest IguanaKing]

I mean this topic has gone on this long and still there's not a quantitive thought to the whole "ECM Blinking" issue.

 

Exactly!!! Some people want to whine about its usage, but when someone asks about PRF of a RL radar, well...talk turns back to LOPE. The problem is, many of the people bitching about ECM blinking don't have the first clue about how radar/ECM works...so they often run to the "LOPE sucks" argument, even though it hasn't a GD thing to do with the subject at hand. :)

[Pilotasso]

Well for one we do know that F-15 is more liley to pick up a mig at 60 miles rather than 10, and that AMRAAM's and R-27ET's are not intended to be aimed visualy at 40 miles with the purpose for maddog them! ;)

 

Lets not become too demagogic when we are brought before the obvious. Sure it needs fixing, but theres nothing we can do about it right now, nor should we embark on the bandwaggon of other "needed" exploits. Because each biased mind will want his own.

[Guest IguanaKing]

We also know that the IRL F-15 radar has no notch in a look-up situation, but the LOMAC F-15 radar does...so we deal with it. Its all part of the game. Just like me having my 65s shot down by an SA-6. It'd happen once in a blue moon IRL, but it happens 100% of the time in LOMAC unless I use combat tactics against it. Is the situation realistic? Should the Gainful be that formidable? Nope. But I adapt, and I kill it, within the rules of the game. No bitching here. OK...I guess I DO bitch a little about this problem, but I still deal with it, and I still kill SAM sites. :D

[Guest IguanaKing]

Prophet: Neither does the RL radar and PRF, considering the ECM model in LOMAC is simple, and there is no ECCM. So RL hasnt got anything to do with it either.

Oh? So are you saying that you can match the PRF of a radar with your finger on a button? Or even a macro? Is the pulse width of a PC keyboard narrower than 21uS?

[Prophet]

Now sure what that has to do with anything.

 

Whats the PRF in LOMAC? Who cares about RL, its not relevant in this discussion yet thats what you continue to focus on. If the ECM model was after a RL ECM, then OK. If we had ECCM like in RL, then OK.

 

But we dont, and so it doesnt matter.

 

The arguement that macroing the ECM key is OK, because IRL thats what it actually does its just absurd.

 

And the minumum delay my G15 allows is 100usec.

[Guest IguanaKing]

You edited your previous post, so I answered it, above.

 

Hmmm...looks like you are taking advantage of an exploit offered by these forums. :D