Engine Failure during normal flight

Irishlad200000 · April 1, 2018

Hi Guys!

I have had a run of bad luck lately! Apart from issues with egt on the UH1, now the P51 cuts out when all is in the green!

Any ideas? Is it another bug on 2.5? Or am I doing something wrong?

Cheers

msalama · April 1, 2018

You sure you aren't overboosting the engine while your RPM is low?

Edited April 1, 2018 by msalama

LURKINGBADGER · April 1, 2018

Does it happen in every sortie?

Give us a bit more info... mission, airstart ore not etc.

Campbell · April 1, 2018

I’m sure it’s a bug, it happened to me just yesterday during multiplayer. There so many of them it’s hard to keep them apart. That’s not an uncommon one, it strikes at random and is hard to duplicate without doing obvious engine mismanagement.

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msalama · April 2, 2018

Whut? It certainly isn't indicative of a bug present if you mismanage the engine and it then dies on you.

Campbell · April 2, 2018

Engine Failure during normal flight

Whut? It certainly isn't indicative of a bug present if you mismanage the engine and it then dies on you.

You misunderstood what I was saying. It’s a bug that’s difficult to recreate because it’s so random. It happens fairly often, everything in the green running fine at max continuous then “bam” prop stops dead. I was pointing out that this bug is a different issue and separate from running a mismanaged engine. A mismanaged engine is not a bug and will kill it very quickly.

saburo_cz · April 2, 2018

It is bug, and Dora suffers from the same, engine fails - stops, without any reason.

I just landed on one non PvP server after approx. 1 hour long flight with Pony, and when i stopped the engine!!!, the niose which always goes with that failure said that engine is dead.

So, i tried to start engine, and i heard starter, bur propeller did not rotate..

Yes, this troublesome bug killed my engine after i stopped it,

btw. the same i experienced with Dora on BS server, engine died after landing when engine setting was IDLE...

LURKINGBADGER · April 2, 2018

Report the bug once you have a video of it and have the track handy.

Thats a shame, keep an eye on it.

msalama · April 3, 2018

Right... well, this is a bug I haven't personally experienced so far; and as a groundpounder, I do stress the engine quite hard at times. But maybe this only happens at altitude? Since I'm in the weeds most of the time...

SnowTiger · April 3, 2018

IF you have your Radiator on AUTO, switch to Manual and open them Wide Open.

See if this helps prevent your issue. If so, then engine temperature management is your problem, not DCS.

If this turns to to be the problem, then minimal instruction will have you avoiding seized engines completely.

saburo_cz · April 3, 2018

IF you have your Radiator on AUTO, switch to Manual and open them Wide Open.

See if this helps prevent your issue. If so, then engine temperature management is your problem, not DCS.
If this turns to to be the problem, then minimal instruction will have you avoiding seized engines completely.

Unfortunately manual controls does not prevent from this problem.

Example which i described above, I controled coolants manualy and did not exceed green range, and engine died.

Dora which has the same problem does not have manual control. (only semi manual)

Campbell is perfectly right, it is totally random and unpredictable, and it is "impossible" to simulate it intentionally.

Bounder · April 4, 2018

As others have said, would be helpful to have a (working) trackfile of any incidents so we, and more importantly ED, can see the problem.

Art-J · April 4, 2018

However, since reliable track files are as common as unicorns and fairies, I think we're stuck in troubleshooting this one...

voodooman · April 4, 2018

i haven't flown the P-51 after the latest update. i been flying the 109 for the longest of time and i have no engine issues with that.

but that said, about the stang engine management. i never keep the rpm lower than max 3000 in the mustang. i have gazillion hours on the stang and i have learned during those hours that if you want to keep your engine running, keep it at full rpm ALLWAYS. i just have a feeling about the engine that lower rpm stresses the engine even with moderate manifold pressures.

have to say that i take off with a light plane 200kg of fuel max. heavier plane than that i never go above 61" if even that.

even when i lower my manifold to 30 i keep full rpm unless im about to land, then i some times lower the rpm to "feather" the prop a little. when i take off, i move the manifold slowly to 48" and KEEP it at 48" until everything is green, then move the manifold to 52 inches. 52 is good for shallow climb as it is for level flight. when i attack i go full boost to 67. i cut the wire allready on the ground before i start the engine so i can move to 67" slowly without the sudden "jerk" you get if you cut the wire while full throttle. and allways rpm at max. havent blown an engine in ages with this method.

Gonna test the stang toninght and report after.

Edited April 4, 2018 by voodooman

voodooman · April 4, 2018

I flew 2 sorties at Burning skies tonight and no problemo. did my routine 52" 3000rpm most of the time, AND a slow and low fight with 109 (pilot nick: Hub) that took forever!

i even lowered rpm in some occasion as i was so slow that had to do so to have any control of the plane with full flaps and near stall speed. i realized that occasionally my rpm was 2800 and manifold pressure 65"!!! very small amount of time surely, BUT if there were any over sensitivity to blow the engine, it would have blown in that fight.

That was only 2 sorties, and if that bug is not consistent and only appears sometimes, then it might be there but i wasn't able to replicate it.

voodooman · April 4, 2018

btw. the reason that 52" 3000rpm is so good in my opinion, is that in level flight temps stay green (rads auto) AND you go 300mph.

so 52" for 300mph and 67" for 350mph

also allmost no control input or trim is required in that flight condition.

in my opinion after thousands of hours in the stang, it is the sweetspot for the plane.

Edited April 4, 2018 by voodooman

Campbell · April 4, 2018

btw. the reason that 52" 3000rpm is so good in my opinion, is that in level flight temps stay green (rads auto) AND you go 300mph.

so 52" for 300mph and 67" for 350mph

also allmost no control input or trim is required in that flight condition.

in my opinion after thousands of hours in the stang, it is the sweetspot for the plane.

Well did you win the low and slow fight?

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msalama · April 6, 2018

i just have a feeling about the engine that lower rpm stresses the engine even with moderate manifold pressures.

First off, I'm a groundpounder and you seem to be an aerial combat guy, so there're profound differences in how we operate the plane.

But that said, I've never experienced _any_ problems whatsoever when running the engine on cruise RPMs if I've kept the MP in check as well, so I can't agree with you on there being something profoundly wrong in how this is modelled. One just needs to ensure a sufficient airflow through the radiators at all times, even if it entails putting the rads on manual, but that ensured, I've never had the powerplant unexpectedly blow up on me.

But the operational differences are there too. I'm in the weeds most of the time, whereas you're way up there. I'm not experiencing this, whereas you - and many other fighter guys - are. Is the (auto) blower providing too much boost at altitude or something?

Hub · April 7, 2018

Engine Failure during normal flight

I flew 2 sorties at Burning skies tonight and no problemo. did my routine 52" 3000rpm most of the time, AND a slow and low fight with 109 (pilot nick: Hub) that took forever!
i even lowered rpm in some occasion as i was so slow that had to do so to have any control of the plane with full flaps and near stall speed. i realized that occasionally my rpm was 2800 and manifold pressure 65"!!! very small amount of time surely, BUT if there were any over sensitivity to blow the engine, it would have blown in that fight.

That was only 2 sorties, and if that bug is not consistent and only appears sometimes, then it might be there but i wasn't able to replicate it.

And a fun fight it was!!!

However the next day I was in a 51 fighting a 190. In a great fight .. May have been JG27 madman?

I had had the 51 at 26 rpm 42 on manifold in a vertical rolling scissors fight . All temps were in the green, I had manually opened both doors because of the vertical fight .

SNAP. Engine seize . Temps were good.. doors open. If it’s not a bug, would like to know what I am doing wrong , as my engine settings in my opinion weren’t pushing to hard .

Any thoughts?

I have also had engine seize while cruising . All temps green at 22 rpms low manifold, level flight 250 mph.

Hub

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Shahdoh · April 7, 2018

Other settings to check to make sure they are not the issue:

Bird strike setting.

Random Failures.

They are probably off, but best to make sure before you go tracking down a bug that isn't there because a setting is on that you THOUGHT was off.

Good luck

Campbell · April 8, 2018

I flew 2 sorties at Burning skies tonight and no problemo. did my routine 52" 3000rpm most of the time, AND a slow and low fight with 109 (pilot nick: Hub) that took forever!
i even lowered rpm in some occasion as i was so slow that had to do so to have any control of the plane with full flaps and near stall speed. i realized that occasionally my rpm was 2800 and manifold pressure 65"!!! very small amount of time surely, BUT if there were any over sensitivity to blow the engine, it would have blown in that fight.

That was only 2 sorties, and if that bug is not consistent and only appears sometimes, then it might be there but i wasn't able to replicate it.

Your settings play into a theory I’ve had about this issue for awhile. I’ve often thought that this issue may not be module related but instead be internet related. All of us experience ping issues with the occasional lag or spike on the server. Here’s my theory- Everything is running as it should, your at max continuous (46mp 2700rpm) and temps in the green. That’s what you see in the cockpit, but then you get and input/output lag spike from the server, you don’t see anything in the cockpit change, However, the sim may interpret this lag spike with a fluctuations in the throttle response. I think the sim is spiking the throttle setting (causing it to act as though you slammed it full forward) even though you didn’t change a thing. This would cause a very high over squared engine (MP much higher then RPM) Bam! Engine breaks, but you never actually see this fluctuation take place in the cockpit. This situation could only occur over a network and on a server. It could never be recreated in a single player because theres no server! If someone is using your settings to fly with. Then in theory this over squared situation should never occur due to any input or output lags or spikes because you are always running max RPM.Thus never experiencing this particular issue. Your thoughts???

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msalama · April 8, 2018

Your thoughts???

A real possibility on high-volume servers. Doesn't occur in SP or limited MP, such as coops with a couple of participants though; I've hosted plenty of those and have had no problems whatsoever. Which OTOH doesn't really prove anything one way or another here...

voodooman · April 8, 2018

i really dont know if server lagspikes could cause them engine stoppages, but i know i get them as well, the spikes i mean.

i just know that when the plane is heavy, (+40% fuel) i start to get them stoppages too. it feels like the engine cant pull all that weight without blowing up in some time of the flight.

could be that's because i'm used to a light plane, and am trying to get that heavier plane to accelerate like a light one, and because of that lose the engine.

but i stopped wondering about that a long time ago, and take a light plane and keep the settings i mentioned, as i know, like that i get to have a plane which engine gets me home.

but in the multiplayer arena we have now, that 40% is the same as 109's 100% and they run out of fuel about in the same time, so i really dont see why to take more fuel than that in mp.

Edited April 8, 2018 by voodooman

Hub · April 8, 2018

i really dont know if server lagspikes could cause them engine stoppages, but i know i get them as well, the spikes i mean.

i just know that when the plane is heavy, (+40% fuel) i start to get them stoppages too. it feels like the engine cant pull all that weight without blowing up in some time of the flight.
could be that's because i'm used to a light plane, and am trying to get that heavier plane to accelerate like a light one, and because of that lose the engine.
but i stopped wondering about that a long time ago, and take a light plane and keep the settings i mentioned, as i know, like that i get to have a plane which engine gets me home.

but in the multiplayer arena we have now, that 40% is the same as 109's 100% and they run out of fuel about in the same time, so i really dont see why to take more fuel than that in mp.

Another thing I have looked into,

I can’t find many reports from WWII of p51 pilots seizing engines in combat. (That didn’t take hits) . I have read quite a few in books that say the pilots “poured on the coal” or pushed their aircraft to the limit.

I would like to think an engine would give you some kind of indication that all is not well.

Running and sounding fine, to instantly seizing seems a bit off. I don’t want to complain, just pointing out what occurs in the sim.

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voodooman · April 8, 2018

why dont try to take 40 % fuel and keep rpm to max at ALL times? and see if the stoppages go away?

i really feel that the engine gets too stressed with lower rpm, and that gets multiplied by weight of the plane.

if there's a bug, in my opinion it's too easily "stress-able" engine. not a random failure that comes out of nowhere, caused by something else in the system.

i took that point of view, and started to minimize the stress by the means i've allready told you, AND the stoppages dissappeared. go figure..

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Engine Failure during normal flight

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