GBU-12 not tracking buddy lase

[Britchot]

—-Disregard, works if flown like the French do!——

 

Conducted several attempts to drop GBU-12s from "Bomb Truck" loadout with A-10C and AV-8B N/A lasing the target. Set the INS point and dropped the bombs from altitudes between 12k to 20k, wings level as well as a 3-5° dive with some of the bombs falling dumb near the target area but never tracking the lase. Used default 1688 and manually input 1337 codes and two separate Mirage clients.

 

Isolated to the Mirage by having the A-10C buddy lase for the AV-8B and the AV-8B self-lase, successfully.

 

Original thread: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=208603

Edited May 17, 2018 by Britchot
Members set the procedures straight!

[jojo]

Hi,

 

Please look at this video:

 

The proper way to deliver a bomb in CCPL (CCRP in English language) isn't by a 3° or 5° shallow dive.

In the video he is diving -25°.

 

Whatever the weapon, if it's CCPL, this is the way to do it.

I'm looking for another video with Mirage 2000D...stand by

[YoYo]

Conducted several attempts to drop GBU-12s from "Bomb Truck" loadout with A-10C and AV-8B N/A lasing the target. Set the INS point and dropped the bombs from altitudes between 12k to 20k, wings level as well as a 3-5° dive with some of the bombs falling dumb near the target area but never tracking the lase. Used default 1688 and manually input 1337 codes and two separate Mirage clients.

 

Isolated to the Mirage by having the A-10C buddy lase for the AV-8B and the AV-8B self-lase, successfully.

 

Original thread: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=208603

 

In 2.5.1 or 2.5.0?

In RC GBU-12 works without any problem.

Example 2.5: https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3486437&postcount=7 .

[jojo]

http://dai.ly/x9f38y

 

Go watch at 7'30" (Mirage F1) and 8'08" (Mirage 2000D), they both perform CCPL.

Edited February 26, 2020 by jojo

[YoYo]

Ok, so maybe 2.5.1 is buggy with this, I have 2.5.0 only...

[Britchot]

Hi,

 

Please look at this video:

 

The proper way to deliver a bomb in CCPL (CCRP in English language) isn't by a 3° or 5° shallow dive.

In the video he is diving -25°.

 

Whatever the weapon, if it's CCPL, this is the way to do it.

I'm looking for another video with Mirage 2000D...stand by

 

wow, not what I expected for a CCRP, thanks for the info, jojo!

 

We tried every conceivable angle, most were level CCRP delivery attempts. We did the dive profile at the suggestion of another user. No worky.

 

Not at this angle, though. We'll give this a try next time.

[Britchot]

In 2.5.1 or 2.5.0?

In RC GBU-12 works without any problem.

Example 2.5: https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3486437&postcount=7 .

 

2.5.1

 

My releases looked similar with zero success: https://clips.twitch.tv/ObliviousEsteemedNostrilSSSsss

[Esac_mirmidon]

I need to try the buddy lasing with some friends but i was testing just minutes ago the JTAC lasing with a lasing script in the last 2.5.1 Open Beta with the Mirage and 4/4 hits with GBU-12 on ground targets.

 

For me the thing that works better is designate a point in the ground well before the target, something like 1000-1500 meters before to give the bomb time to drop the nose and catch the laser.

 

All my testings were at 10.000 feet and level, around 400 knots.

Edited May 17, 2018 by Esac_mirmidon

[Britchot]

I need to try the buddy lasing with some friends but i was testing just minutes ago the JTAC lasing with a lasing script in the last 2.5.1 Open Beta with the Mirage and 4/4 hits with GBU-12 on ground targets.

 

For me the thing that works better is designate a point in the ground well before the target, something like 1000-1500 meters before to give the bomb time to drop the nose and catch de laser.

 

All my testings were at 10.000 feet and level, around 400 knots.

 

My designation was at the target, so this could be the issue, too. Perhaps with the increased dive angle jojo pointed out, it can be marked on the target since the seeker will be oriented down, already.

[Esac_mirmidon]

If you be so kind try to designate well before the target and report here.

 

Also take in count i was using a ground jtac. Not buddy lasing. Yet

[Britchot]

Works, maybe as intended?

 

Esac, spotting approximately 1k from the target does work, it has a fairly shallow glide path, though. 1.5km-ish was too far

 

Jojo, 25 degrees down worked perfectly and had a nice path for the bomb while designating the actual target area.

[jojo]

CCRP word, while it’s the literal translation of French acronym CCPL, is misleading.

We are used to US CCRP on F-16 and Hornet/ Super Hornet simulators, but the Dassault’s fighters CCPL doesn’t really work that way (excepted for Mirage 2000D which can release GBU from level flight in high altitude).

 

Does it work IRL ?

Yes, combat proven on multiples fighters and war zones.

Super Étendard, Mirage F1, Mirage 2000...

 

DCS bug: it seems there is an accuracy problem, but the error is consistent.

For accurate designation, dive between -20° and -30°, aim with the top of the diamond rather than the center.

When the release cue appears you can press the trigger and pull up as hard as you want (FBW switch on CHARGES = 6G max).

With practice, you can perform DH on trucks with Mk-82.

For the record, IRL F-16 or Mirage 2000 (or any other), a Mk-82 within 20m of the target is a good run.

 

Why is not working with long range shallow dive designation ?

- the designation isn’t really accurate

- to my taste, DCS GBU-12 is gliding and falling too flat, which isn’t realistic.

 

GBU-12 should have a kind of “guided” ballistic trajectory, and point nose down.

But in DCS, if you release level, it does fall flat.

 

GBU on M-2000C module:

Razbam just hung stock DCS GBU-12/ 16/ 24 under the Mirage. Any bug with these weapons is ED related.

 

Have fun :thumbup:

[Esac_mirmidon]

Thanks Britchot for taking your time testing it.

 

For me is working all the time, designating before the target as Jojo is suggesting. With the top of the diamond, more or less 1000 meters before the target. And i can bomb consistently flying level until release. The flat fall Jojo is saying is being "fixed" with the short designation before teh target, giving time to the bomb to move the nose down and track the laser. But if you designate to much before the bomb doesnt have enough energy.

 

Now i will test it with some friends in a Harrier or an A-10C, marking the ground the same way before the target.

 

Thanks again mate.

Edited May 17, 2018 by Esac_mirmidon

[jojo]

My main "selling point" is to designate during a 20 to 30 degrees dive and release during pull up :smilewink:

 

But as long as bombs are on target, you're good :thumbup:

[Esac_mirmidon]

Thats what im doing all the time. working good so far. The real video of the Mirage pilot is inspiring me XDD

[Britchot]

Yeah, I’m going to practice designating and dropping in the same dive as the videos showed, too!

[QuiGon]

Hi,

 

Please look at this video:

 

The proper way to deliver a bomb in CCPL (CCRP in English language) isn't by a 3° or 5° shallow dive.

In the video he is diving -25°.

 

Whatever the weapon, if it's CCPL, this is the way to do it.

I'm looking for another video with Mirage 2000D...stand by

 

This is some very interesting information, as I tried buddy lasing with the M2000 yesterday and it did not work. I dropped the bombs in level flight as that is how I'm used to do CCRP from US aircraft. I will try the french way next time and see if this works. If RAZBAM has actually implemented it this way, then the manual contains incorrect information:

To do a CCRP bomb run the following procedure must be followed. (For symbols

description please refer to the HUD chapter).

1. Minimum altitude should be 2000 feet AGL and speed above 350 KIAS.

2. Fly in a slight dive towards your target. It shouldn’t be more than 15º.

3. Place the CCRP piper over your target

4. Click on the AG DESIGNATE button (refer to HOTAS title in Chapter 1).

5. Pull up and resume level flight.

6. The target cross will remain over the target.

7. Fly towards the target.

8. When you are 15 seconds from the release point, the release cue will appear.

9. Press the trigger as soon as you see the release cue. Keep the trigger pressed while the cue is visible.

10. The bombs will be released automatically when the cue cross the CCRP piper.

11. The system will clear the target designation as soon as the bombs have been released.

Edited May 22, 2018 by QuiGon

[Esac_mirmidon]

Are you marking a point before the target? More or less 1000 meters?

 

Use the upper part of the romboid to mark.

[jojo]

This is some very interesting information, as I tried buddy lasing with the M2000 yesterday and it did not work. I dropped the bombs in level flight as that is how I'm used to do CCRP from US aircraft. I will try the french way next time and see if this works. If RAZBAM has actually implemented it this way, then the manual contains incorrect information:

 

Yes, maybe something to correct in the manual. AFAIK, you designate in the dive, then you can pull up slowly or max aft stick (CHARGES fbw mode).