Move FC3/4 aircraft radar to the newer model?

[StandingCow]

With the release of the hornet we are getting our first taste of what a realistic aircraft radar acts like. On servers that mix FC3/4 with Full Fidelity aircraft I could see the FC3/4 aircraft being a bit "overpowered" due to their magical radar.

 

 

 

Is this something ED plans to address in the future or is FC3/4 always going to remain simple not only in terms of controls but also in how their systems (such as radar) work?

[Jarlerus]

"first taste of what a realistic aircraft radar acts like"

 

* coughmirage2kcough *

[StandingCow]

"first taste of what a realistic aircraft radar acts like"

 

* coughmirage2kcough *

 

 

Hmmm, true. The point stands though that moving FC3 to the more realistic radar model would be good for "balance" in DCS... I hate using that word but in this case I think it fits.

[Shadow KT]

You alright there ? You might wanna check that coughing, because the Mirage's radar uses the same logic as the FC ones.

 

I believe that the MiG-21's radar was the first attempt at a complete radar logic simulation

 

The Hornet's radar will be the first "modern" completely simulated radar logic in DCS, but it has a lot to go

[Jarlerus]

You alright there ? You might wanna check that coughing, because the Mirage's radar uses the same logic as the FC ones.

 

I believe that the MiG-21's radar was the first attempt at a complete radar logic simulation

 

The Hornet's radar will be the first "modern" completely simulated radar logic in DCS, but it has a lot to go

 

Yeah, you are probably right about the Hornets radar.

 

Maybe I should have coughed "F-5" instead xD

It's quite realistically modeled, only that elevation-scan isn't automated.

Point was that there's radars that require hands-on and understanding about how they work already in DCS.

 

Going on topic; I think that FC3 a/c should stay "easier". Partly because there should be an incitament to switch to full-fid modules, but also because FC3 a/c's don't have advanced systems modeled, and should stay that way - Let ED focus on making full fid stuff instead, and let FC3 be the steppingstone it is.

[Mars Exulte]

I was under the impression the F-14 would be the first ray based radar we get, one of its selling points. Is the F-18 doing something similar also?

[PeaceSells]

With the release of the hornet we are getting our first taste of what a realistic aircraft radar acts like. On servers that mix FC3/4 with Full Fidelity aircraft I could see the FC3/4 aircraft being a bit "overpowered" due to their magical radar.

 

I don't own the F-18 and I'm curious to know the difference between it's radar and the FC3 radar.

[Fri13]

I don't own the F-18 and I'm curious to know the difference between it's radar and the FC3 radar.

 

With a FC3 that is not there, so you will have perfect accuracy for the maneuvering target, you have very little changes to lose a lock on target and so on.

[PeaceSells]

 

With a FC3 that is not there, so you will have perfect accuracy for the maneuvering target, you have very little changes to lose a lock on target and so on.

 

What I'm asking is have you guys actually experienced differences in locking, etc, in the F-18? Don't forget that it's not an air superiority fighter like FC3 and it's radar is supposed to be weaker. And that FC3 will also lose lock on maneuvering targets.

 

Regarding the antenna beam, I guess all modules simulate that in one way or the other. You can notice even on FC3 that contacts aren't detected automatically when you point the aircraft to them, you must wait the antenna to hit them. You can see the antenna movement on the screen of the F-15.

 

BTW, how did you make that beam show up? That was cool!

[Fri13]

What I'm asking is have you guys actually experienced differences in locking, etc, in the F-18? Don't forget that it's not an air superiority fighter like FC3 and it's radar is supposed to be weaker. And that FC3 will also lose lock on maneuvering targets.

 

Regarding the antenna beam, I guess all modules simulate that in one way or the other. You can notice even on FC3 that contacts aren't detected automatically when you point the aircraft to them, you must wait the antenna to hit them. You can see the antenna movement on the screen of the F-15.

 

BTW, how did you make that beam show up? That was cool!

That is official ED development image presenting the new radar simulation visually for their debug purposes.

 

The FC3 radars are all knowing and they just use simple timers and unit ID to show them in radars etc.

 

In now hornet things like rolling actually changes how radar dish needs to compensate for it and you lose a lock. With FC3 it can be just a timer like example "lose a lock if rolling over 33deg/s" etc.

 

The simulation level difference can be in most cases very subtle but in critical moments it becomes more different.

 

It is like simulating a rolling of dice. Simple thing is to use a random number generator as dice eye count is and it works for almost everything. But a more accurate simulation would be physics about materials, weights, velocities, angles etc that would eventually result to same results as it would always be ie. Number between 1-6. So no need to do it complex.

 

But if you would be studying the dice physics, you don't care about number, but how dice behaves in different situations like when building a roulette table that is more difficult to cheat because different materials used on it.

 

 

 

 

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I usually post from my phone so please excuse any typos, inappropriate punctuation and capitalization, missing words and general lack of cohesion and sense in my posts.....

[PeaceSells]

Thanks for the explanation, I hope they do that to all radars!

[Fri13]

Thanks for the explanation, I hope they do that to all radars!

 

Hopefully they would do it for all radars as well all sensors by adding the Line of Sight limitation at least. FC3/FC4 shouldn't get complex things as we do not need such level really, but for fairness when in multiplayer there should be the same rules for engagements.

 

This would as well change the ground units spotting capability as a vehicle crew can't see well when buttoned down (everyone inside and hatches closed) as periscopes and prisms are not really good to see outside. So air attack is really easy to do as crew is basically very limited by spotting stance.

 

We would eventually need very high multi-core performance as the radar simulations should become more for similar as ray tracing is, and that is extremely demanding task.

 

Example here is a Intel showing ray tracing with 32 core CPU (64 threads) and 10 ray bounces at 2010.

 

So no we can actually get more limited by the radar capabilities in F/A-18C. One day we hopefully get the chaff causing radar reactions etc and we start to see the limitations for everything. Meaning you really need to get to the good position to shoot missiles or use cannon etc and there will be far less air quake and only stupid would just "fly in" blindly to search enemies.

 

The Mirage 2000C already brought good radar limitations but so many is losing locks very easily with that so the BVR combat is almost useless. The F/A-18C module now has similar thing that you easily lose a lock with too fast maneuvering or target turns.

[gavagai]

* coughmirage2kcough *

 

+1

 

Been there with the M2K against everyone else playing in boyscout mode. I've been locked up on the taxiway on servers where the only AI in the air is awacs.