Question :ALE-47 chaff &flare AUTO

[bin801]

I read manual several times, but I can not understand:

 

when set ALE-47 to AUTO mode, " will select the a program to match the threat and allow the pilot to initiate a program (S/A) or have the CMDS initiate a program automatically (AUTO)."

 

my understanding about "initiate" is :

 

when S/A, system will select program BUT need pilot press throttle grip switch to start release chaff&flare.

 

when AUTO, system will select program AND release chaff&flare automatically (CMDS initiate), pilot don't need do anyting.

 

please teach me the real meaning

 

Appreciate!

[QuiGon]

I think your understanding is correct. That's how I understand it too and how it works in the A-10C as well.

 

What I don't understand is how the system determines which program is the best in each situation?

[Alfa]

Yes thats correctly understood - the ALE-47 has four main operating modes:

 

- Automatic: the system determines the threat situation via input from various sensors and automatically starts dispensing accordingly without pilot intervention.

 

- Semi-automatic: same as above, but instead of dispensing automatically it only prompts the pilot to activate.

 

- Manual: same system as in previous ALE-39 - i.e. the pilot selects between several pre-set dispensing programs.

 

- Bypass: gives the pilot direct control of the dispensers to release pairs of chaff/flares e.g. via the "Dispense" button on the left cockpit wall.

[falcon_120]

I think your understanding is correct. That's how I understand it too and how it works in the A-10C as well.

 

What I don't understand is how the system determines which program is the best in each situation?

Based on the RWR and the type of threat closer or firing onto you.

 

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[blkspade]

The thing is without any MLWS, it would have no way to determine and respond to an IR threat.

[Eddie]

The thing is without any MLWS, it would have no way to determine and respond to an IR threat.

 

Correct. That’s why you also have program 5 and 6 on CMS Fwd and the slap switch respectively. Auto modes are there to assist the pilot, not take away the need to watch for and react to threats.

 

Really you’re better off in manual anyway, no sim has ever gotten Auto modes of defensive aids suites right, I don’t think the Hornet will be different.

[QuiGon]

Based on the RWR and the type of threat closer or firing onto you.

Yes, I understand that part. But how does it know which CM program is the best for the current threat? Especially if I manually configure my CM programs?

Correct. That’s why you also have program 5 and 6 on CMS Fwd and the slap switch respectively. Auto modes are there to assist the pilot, not take away the need to watch for and react to threats.

How do you configure program 6? I can only configure programs 1-5 IIRC?

[Eddie]

You have to edit the lua file manually.

 

Here’s a program set that I prepared earlier, still not final (I’ll probably do a few profiles to account for different threat types/mission profiles).

 

http://www.476vfightergroup.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=492

[bin801]

Yes thats correctly understood - the ALE-47 has four main operating modes:

 

- Automatic: the system determines the threat situation via input from various sensors and automatically starts dispensing accordingly without pilot intervention.

 

- Semi-automatic: same as above, but instead of dispensing automatically it only prompts the pilot to activate.

 

- Manual: same system as in previous ALE-39 - i.e. the pilot selects between several pre-set dispensing programs.

 

- Bypass: gives the pilot direct control of the dispensers to release pairs of chaff/flares e.g. via the "Dispense" button on the left cockpit wall.

 

I ask this question because ,even in training mission, I leave the setting at AUTO and see F2 outside view, I was shot down by missile and without chaff and flare were released automatically. why?

thanks

[bin801]

Yes thats correctly understood - the ALE-47 has four main operating modes:

 

- Automatic: the system determines the threat situation via input from various sensors and automatically starts dispensing accordingly without pilot intervention.

 

- Semi-automatic: same as above, but instead of dispensing automatically it only prompts the pilot to activate.

 

- Manual: same system as in previous ALE-39 - i.e. the pilot selects between several pre-set dispensing programs.

 

- Bypass: gives the pilot direct control of the dispensers to release pairs of chaff/flares e.g. via the "Dispense" button on the left cockpit wall.

 

I ask this question because ,even in training mission, I leave the setting at AUTO and see F2 outside view, I was shot down by missile and without chaff and flare were released automatically. why?

Did I miss any step?

thanks

[QuiGon]

You have to edit the lua file manually.

 

Here’s a program set that I prepared earlier, still not final (I’ll probably do a few profiles to account for different threat types/mission profiles).

 

http://www.476vfightergroup.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=492

Thanks, but is this how it is supposed to be? Is program 6 configured only from outside the cockpit IRL?

[Alfa]

I ask this question because ,even in training mission, I leave the setting at AUTO and see F2 outside view, I was shot down by missile and without chaff and flare were released automatically. why?

Did I miss any step?

thanks

 

What type of missile shot you down?.

 

As blkspade said, the Hornet does not have any sensors that can detect an incoming IR homing missile, so the dispenser logic cannot react to that.

 

The ALE-47 system as such can if installed on aircraft that have an MLWS(Missile Launch Warning System).

[Joker328]

Auto and S/A modes have not been implemented yet in the sim. They are WIP. Use manual for now.

 

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[Alfa]

Auto and S/A modes have not been implemented yet in the sim. They are WIP. Use manual for now.

 

Oh - so thats probably the reason then :D .

[falcon_120]

Yes, I understand that part. But how does it know which CM program is the best for the current threat? Especially if I manually configure my CM programs? QUOTE/]

 

According to some users S/A and Auto are WIP and not implemented yet, i didn't know that. But when they are implemented they will select the best option even if its manually programed based on the database of the RWR, so if the radar the system is detecting is a SA8 it will select a program that can respond to an IR threat; so anything with a decent amount of flares :).

 

In the AUTO mode and this is my opinion, for IR threats I guess that the system will automatically dispense flares within the lethal WEZ of any IR SAM (whatever this range is defined in the RWR DDBB for each threat), even when it cannot detect a launch because there is no MLWS. In the end IRL when you are within the WEZ of an IR SAM site you have to suppose you've been fired and get out of there as fast as you possibly can, not like in the Sim where we fly happily above all kinds of threats waiting to be fired upon. Anyhow on this last paragraph someone who knows how the real system works in AUTO mode for IR program will prove me wrong or right XD :p.

Edited June 14, 2018 by falcon_120

[Alfa]

Good point on SAM sites using a combination of radar/IR missiles, but that would only work due to the tracking radar popping up on the RWR(and subsequently being ID'ed). But what if the IR homing missile is launched from a SAM system or aircraft using only optical means for target tracking/acquisition? :)

[falcon_120]

Good point on SAM sites using a combination of radar/IR missiles, but that would only work due to the tracking radar popping up on the RWR(and subsequently being ID'ed). But what if the IR homing missile is launched from a SAM system or aircraft using only optical means for target tracking/acquisition? :)

 

In that case you are toasted XD :P. nothing you can do if you're attacked using totally passive systems.

[Joker328]

No idea how it works IRL but logically I would think auto mode would still have an option for you to initiate the manual programs using the CM switch. So if you see an IR missile launch you could still drop flares even if it doesn't happen automatically.

 

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[falcon_120]

Thats for sure

 

Enviado desde mi SM-G950F mediante Tapatalk

[Dreadnaut]

- Bypass: gives the pilot direct control of the dispensers to release pairs of chaff/flares e.g. via the "Dispense" button on the left cockpit wall.

Every time I've tried the "Dispense" button it dumps them ALL.

[Joker328]

Bypass allows you to dispense flares or chaff one by one instead of relying on a specific program. It uses the countermeasures switch on the HOTAS. The dispense button on the left wall is more of a panic button. Not really practical in the sim unless you map a key to it. In any case, I think it is supposed to dispense a bunch of chaff and flares, but not necessarily all of them.

 

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[Alfa]

Every time I've tried the "Dispense" button it dumps them ALL.

 

Yeah it might(couldn't remember), so use the stick CM function instead.

[WildBillKelsoe]

Its kind of stupid that radars are used to lock targets for a heatseeker missile coming from SAM. Take the SA-8 for example, no need to lock a target and announce your presence to their RWR.

 

It could be that radar needs info on target range, bearing, speed, aspect angle etc.. but for most IR SAMs in this game, a simple track and shoot with optical sensors is much more deviant and closer to real life (not a real life serviceman, whistling dixie). If you saw the Saudi F-15 shot at by a SAM, the pilot did not release flares as he did not know he was painted by a radar, and we know what was tracking him, a FLIR scoop.

[Weasel]

Hello bin801

 

I can highly recommend you the following tutorial from Growling Sidewinder:

 

[blkspade]

Its kind of stupid that radars are used to lock targets for a heatseeker missile coming from SAM. Take the SA-8 for example, no need to lock a target and announce your presence to their RWR.

 

It could be that radar needs info on target range, bearing, speed, aspect angle etc.. but for most IR SAMs in this game, a simple track and shoot with optical sensors is much more deviant and closer to real life (not a real life serviceman, whistling dixie). If you saw the Saudi F-15 shot at by a SAM, the pilot did not release flares as he did not know he was painted by a radar, and we know what was tracking him, a FLIR scoop.

 

This function exists also as an IFF method. Its technically only closer to real life when one side doesn't posses airborne assets, and as such can fire indiscriminately.