Struggling to get comfortable

[Jarhead0331]

As the title says, I’m really fighting to get comfortable flying this sim in VR. My biggest hurdles seem to be finding the right positioning of my seat (ie distance from controls, height of chair, etc.) to maximize my ability to comfortably look around the cockpit, reading displays, labels, screens, etc. and finding a system to interact with the cockpit that it comfortable, reasonably fast and practical.

 

So far, I use a combination of using the mouse and VR headset view control to interact with the clickable cockpit, but this is still overly cumbersome and clicking on knobs, buttons and switches is more difficult than it feels it should be. Of course, I’ve mapped most of the critical controls to HOTAS, etc. but sometimes I just naturally prefer to interact with the cockpit. When I get frustrated, I find myself either going back to trackIR or playing VTOL VR where I can actually interact with the cockpit controls with the motion wands of my Vive (fantastic sim, by the way and vr experience).

 

Anyway, any suggestions or tips to get over these humps, or are they just a byproduct of the limitations inherent in the current generation of vr headsets?

[Johnny Dioxin]

I've had my Rift since over 2 years and I have had the UI assigned to a HAT switch all that time. It's completely automatic for me now - left is LMB right is RMB up is zoom in and down is recentre view. I use a rotary encoder on the throttle (X56) as the mousewheel, but have in the past used the up & down of the hat switch with a modifier as MW forward and back.

 

On a modifier I have the same hat switch set to see the chat and menu (ESC).

 

It works just great.

 

For getting the right positon I first used custom views (set using the keyboard, as normal) - but sometimes I still find I want to sit in a slightly different position (for example during start-up in the A-10C or Ka-50) - for this I simply put my head in the relevant position, press the recentre switch and when I sit normally, my head is where I want it to be so I can easily reach everything.

 

Having said that - I sometimes have to hold my headset with one hand, whilst using the opposite hand to flick the LMB or RMB assigned HAT (for example when reaching round to the rear wall controls - Ekran, UV-26 etc - in the Ka-50). I strurggle to twist my body at any time, but this helps.

 

Edit: Here is an example from my Ka-50 profile PoV hat - using two modifier switches I can use the HAT for up to 8 UI assignments and still use it for the searchlight control as well.

 

Edited June 14, 2018 by Brixmis
edit

[Quadg]

have you set the IPD setting in the options?

I found I had to move my head position to be comfortable in the gazelle

with the default IPD, but since setting it to manual IPD I no longer need to move head position.

it feels right straight out the bag.

the menu screen goes a little weird though.

[Jarhead0331]

I've had my Rift since over 2 years and I have had the UI assigned to a HAT switch all that time. It's completely automatic for me now - left is LMB right is RMB up is zoom in and down is recentre view. I use a rotary encoder on the throttle (X56) as the mousewheel, but have in the past used the up & down of the hat switch with a modifier as MW forward and back.

 

On a modifier I have the same hat switch set to see the chat and menu (ESC).

 

It works just great.

 

For getting the right positon I first used custom views (set using the keyboard, as normal) - but sometimes I still find I want to sit in a slightly different position (for example during start-up in the A-10C or Ka-50) - for this I simply put my head in the relevant position, press the recentre switch and when I sit normally, my head is where I want it to be so I can easily reach everything.

 

Having said that - I sometimes have to hold my headset with one hand, whilst using the opposite hand to flick the LMB or RMB assigned HAT (for example when reaching round to the rear wall controls - Ekran, UV-26 etc - in the Ka-50). I strurggle to twist my body at any time, but this helps.

 

Edit: Here is an example from my Ka-50 profile PoV hat - using two modifier switches I can use the HAT for up to 8 UI assignments and still use it for the searchlight control as well.

 

 

 

Thanks for this. I hadn't thought of using the hat for mouse clicking. That's an interesting idea. After some limited experimentation, the mouse seemed much better for cursor control than using the VR headset look option, but your system is at least worth a try. I see most people getting all different kinds of trackballs or touchpads and mounting them in all sorts of strange places...on throttles, on desktops, strapped to the knee or other body parts and appendages, etc. It all seems like too much effort to me. lol

[BlacleyCole]

I get comfortable then recenter the VR the iPd will get you feeling right proportionally I also use VR zoom when I’m learning a cockpit after a while you know where everything is and what to do with it.

Edited June 18, 2018 by BlacleyCole

[Supmua]

VR flightsim, imo, is still in infancy stage. Not only do you need expensive and powerful rig to drive it, but also the ability to achieve high and smooth FPS and the spatial resolution are still not up to par compared to 2D screen. Trying to hit correct Fn keys or any regular keys while in VR feels like fumbling in the dark, and cockpit clicking is also as painful because the movement of the cursor is tied to the motion of your head. It sure does take a lot of effort to enjoy DCS in VR.

 

Having said that I do enjoy flying in VR from time to time because it's immersive in a strange way with the stereoscopic images that you perceive, especially when my TrackIR decides to go haywire due to sunlight blasting through the windows. You just have to get used to it, there is no other shortcuts that I know of. Setting correct IPD on both headset and DCS can help reduce headache and eye strain from VR.

[Johnny Dioxin]

I don't quite agree with you on this - and plenty of others using VR would probably say the same, but then each to their own. Everyone likes and dislikes different things. I find controlling the cursor with my head very natural and comfortable to do - although I do wish we could get rid of the cursor from view as and when required.

 

I really enjoy DCS World in VR - but I am flying only non-combat missions in 2.5 due to the sudden increase in hardware requirements - I do all my proper missions etc in 1.5, where performance is still good in VR with what most people would consider a beefy PC. I just uninstalled 2.2 though, so I'm stuck with Caucasus for now - not that I mind that much as I have plenty of missions and campaigns to fly there.

 

The control aspect is a complete non-issue for me in all but Flaming Cliffs, due to the amount of assignments required to operate non-clickable cockpits. I have all others assigned to my HOTAS with two modifiers, but it's difficult to remember where everything is in FC3 - even with cheat sheets.

 

I have all the Function keys assigned to my throttle HAT controls. FC3 is the only module where I can't fit it all on the HOTAS (and for that I have my MFDs and a home built UFC - the UFC switches and buttons are very easy to find without looking, and with the MFDs I only use the rocker switches and the buttons directly adjacent tothem , so again, easy to find by feel.

 

Just initially takes a bit of time, effort and imagination. More basic controllers such as T-HOTAS X have a lack of buttons or PoVs to assign - but then I guess anyone who is able to afford VR will be able to afford a decent HOTAS, too.

[Baggy MacDouche]

I still use my mouse for most cockpit stuff I don't have mapped to HOTAS. It's within easy reach and don't have a problem finding it when needed. I have one of those fancy Razer mice with a ton of buttons on it, so I can map certain things to it too. One of those does show/hide the cursor when I'm not using it. Clickable radios make interacting easier.

 

I pretty much fly the A10-C exclusively and one of my biggest pet peeves is trying to get to controls on either side of the seat. Temporarily repositioning my head helps with startup, but for some reason when looking down to the left/right, I can see the switch I want to interact with, but the mouse cursor seems to hit an invisible edge, preventing me from reaching it. That edge is about a 1/3 of the way up from the bottom of the visible area. I'm guessing the cursor is hitting the bottom of the monitor window. Fullscreen or not, doesn't seem to make a difference. If the mouse cursor could reach the entire viewing area, then it wouldn't be a problem. I just can't physically tilt my head down enough to get the cursor on target. I have to physically move my chair.

 

Not related to the above, but I've used some HUD text and instrument labels mods to increase size/clarity in the A10, which helps. Can only SS so much. Some elements like system messages and chat are impossible to read.

 

Still waiting for next gen VR with foveated rendering. If it will work as advertised, I think it will be a significant leap forward in performance and clarity for demanding sims like DCS.

[Dav IRL]

I still use my mouse for most cockpit stuff I don't have mapped to HOTAS. It's within easy reach and don't have a problem finding it when needed. I have one of those fancy Razer mice with a ton of buttons on it, so I can map certain things to it too. One of those does show/hide the cursor when I'm not using it. Clickable radios make interacting easier.

 

I pretty much fly the A10-C exclusively and one of my biggest pet peeves is trying to get to controls on either side of the seat. Temporarily repositioning my head helps with startup, but for some reason when looking down to the left/right, I can see the switch I want to interact with, but the mouse cursor seems to hit an invisible edge, preventing me from reaching it. That edge is about a 1/3 of the way up from the bottom of the visible area. I'm guessing the cursor is hitting the bottom of the monitor window. Fullscreen or not, doesn't seem to make a difference. If the mouse cursor could reach the entire viewing area, then it wouldn't be a problem. I just can't physically tilt my head down enough to get the cursor on target. I have to physically move my chair.

 

Not related to the above, but I've used some HUD text and instrument labels mods to increase size/clarity in the A10, which helps. Can only SS so much. Some elements like system messages and chat are impossible to read.

 

Still waiting for next gen VR with foveated rendering. If it will work as advertised, I think it will be a significant leap forward in performance and clarity for demanding sims like DCS.

 

Nice share, this rendering technique looks really promising and less demanding, the sooner the better.

[eaglecash867]

 

I pretty much fly the A10-C exclusively and one of my biggest pet peeves is trying to get to controls on either side of the seat. Temporarily repositioning my head helps with startup, but for some reason when looking down to the left/right, I can see the switch I want to interact with, but the mouse cursor seems to hit an invisible edge, preventing me from reaching it. That edge is about a 1/3 of the way up from the bottom of the visible area. I'm guessing the cursor is hitting the bottom of the monitor window. Fullscreen or not, doesn't seem to make a difference. If the mouse cursor could reach the entire viewing area, then it wouldn't be a problem. I just can't physically tilt my head down enough to get the cursor on target. I have to physically move my chair.

 

 

Have you tried Alt-Enter? That will stretch the VR view window across the whole monitor so your mouse cursor isn't getting trapped at the edges.

[fitness88]

Using Rift, is there a way to control the zoom level you want.

Also I have 2 cursors, one from the HMD and one from the mouse. Can either one be turned off?

[Quadg]

double click the middle mouse wheel to turn the blue mouse cursor on and off

[fitness88]

double click the middle mouse wheel to turn the blue mouse cursor on and off

 

 

Thanks, would you know the command name in controls?

Is there a way to control the zoom level with Rift?

Edited June 17, 2018 by fitness88

[Johnny Dioxin]

Is there a way to control the zoom level with Rift?

 

No - not directly. Might be possible by editing a config file somewhere, but otherwise it's a standard setting.

[dburne]

That is odd, the cursor for my Rift does not stay on all the time, only when I press a button I have assigned for it - and it stays on for a short period and then turns off.

 

I really don't see the regular mouse cursor unless I have ATC menu open.

[eaglecash867]

Same here. The cursor for clicking buttons in VR only turns on if I move the mouse, then it shuts back off after a few seconds of no mouse movement.

[fitness88]

Whatever enables the 2 cursor situation, it sometimes causes a bit of confusion when moving in to click on a control button.

[Baggy MacDouche]

Have you tried Alt-Enter? That will stretch the VR view window across the whole monitor so your mouse cursor isn't getting trapped at the edges.

 

I have indeed, and usually always run in fullscreen. Doesn't matter if I have the mouse confined to game window enable or not either.

 

Let me describe in further detail. When you are on the hangar screen, the game cursor is confined to the gui window(mission, settings, modules, etc.). No matter how much you move the mouse, the game cursor is bound within that window, regardless of the above settings I mentioned. I always use the confined to game window setting, because otherwise it is possible to accidentally click on an icon on the taskbar.

 

Now as well, when flying, the cursor(blue cross) is still confined to that same area, although it is invisible. You can see that area if you call up the pause screen. It is the same area as the gui window in the hangar.

 

I don't know if there is a way to get the cursor to reach outside this "box" and go from screen edge to edge. Otherwise, in order to reach a control in the cockpit, it must be within the area of this box.

 

Hope that makes sense.

[Stal2k]

I have indeed, and usually always run in fullscreen. Doesn't matter if I have the mouse confined to game window enable or not either.

.......

I don't know if there is a way to get the cursor to reach outside this "box" and go from screen edge to edge. Otherwise, in order to reach a control in the cockpit, it must be within the area of this box.

 

Hope that makes sense.

 

It does but it sounds... strange. Out of curiosity what is your VR settings for like Use mouse / enable controls etc? do you have ANY other things running that might impact the mouse? Things like Mouse without borders, synoptics pointing device software (if on a laptop) or any type of joystick profiling that mimics a mouse?

 

Let us know if you are on beta or stable, also try this. keep sim running and go to the VR desktop view, either Rift or Steam should work. Your mouse should be "off" vs the in game cursor. See if you can move it outside of the box from the virtual desktop using the VR controller - not the mouse. This should help figure out where the problem is.

 

Some ideas to try in mean time:

 

*Make sure you don't have any type of multi monitor setup enabled in the general settings

*Optionally, check if this issue exists across Stable/Beta Releases

*Toggle beta version of either SteamVR/Oculus opposite to whatever you have now

*Make sure use controllers and use mouse are checked in DCS, if so try isolating controller methods (again to help see where the problem is)

*This might be a stretch, but if you DO have multiple displays set up, try changing the primary to see if this persists

**If not, check your scaling in display settings, try setting it to 100 or the recommended value just to see if that impacts. This is just a guess on my part based on your symptoms.

[Stal2k]

Thanks, would you know the command name in controls?

Is there a way to control the zoom level with Rift?

 

Just to make sure both you and the OP aren't missing things people might assume are obvious - I'll be that guy :)

 

1. You can't control zoom in the typical way or mapping. There is, at least for the rift a button on one of the hands that allow you to "VR Zoom." While it is true you can't, to my knowledge adjust the amount it's important to be clear that the feature exists. You can also map this to anything via the GUI Options screen. You can also bind or use a mousewheel style function for external views in which you can control the zoom.

 

As an aside, you can get creative with use of the VR center function (default numpad 5) to set yourself closer or further away depending on the plane. Like for FC aircraft like the F-15 I prefer closer since I'm not clicking anything. If you physically lean forward or raise your butt/crouch you can fine tune where you are when you sit back naturally. I think some of the planes, like for sure the f18 have adjustable seats that largely do the same thing with more constraint.

 

2. A lot of people, myself included couldn't figure out how to 'right click' with the VR controllers. You just turn them upside-down and your little green line turns blueish and you can "right click" things with it. Alternatively, if you'd like to face-aim you can bind a HOTAS button to "right click" which is also in that GUI bindings pane.

[Baggy MacDouche]

It does but it sounds... strange. Out of curiosity what is your VR settings for like Use mouse / enable controls etc? do you have ANY other things running that might impact the mouse? Things like Mouse without borders, synoptics pointing device software (if on a laptop) or any type of joystick profiling that mimics a mouse?

 

Let us know if you are on beta or stable, also try this. keep sim running and go to the VR desktop view, either Rift or Steam should work. Your mouse should be "off" vs the in game cursor. See if you can move it outside of the box from the virtual desktop using the VR controller - not the mouse. This should help figure out where the problem is.

 

Some ideas to try in mean time:

 

*Make sure you don't have any type of multi monitor setup enabled in the general settings

*Optionally, check if this issue exists across Stable/Beta Releases

*Toggle beta version of either SteamVR/Oculus opposite to whatever you have now

*Make sure use controllers and use mouse are checked in DCS, if so try isolating controller methods (again to help see where the problem is)

*This might be a stretch, but if you DO have multiple displays set up, try changing the primary to see if this persists

**If not, check your scaling in display settings, try setting it to 100 or the recommended value just to see if that impacts. This is just a guess on my part based on your symptoms.

 

I'll answer what I can.

 

First off, in case I didn't make it clear before, I'm using a Vive with beta version of SteamVR(but have tried stable version). Have experienced this with both latest stable and open beta version(which I use by default) of DCS. This is not the Steam version of the game, but regular install from ED.

 

I should mention, this has always been the situation for me since I started using VR 2 years ago. I just thought that's the way it is.

 

AFAIK, I'm not using any other mouse settings, in-game or outside. I am using a 4k TV as my default monitor, w/200% scaling. No other monitors. Using a Razer Naga Epic as my mouse with Synapse 2.0 software. But nothing fancy going on as far as profiles, etc. Not running any other outside scripts or anything either. TM Warthog for HOTAS, with no mappings that involve the mouse.

 

I tried what you mentioned about using the Vive controller in desktop mode of the dashboard and the laser pointer acts exactly like the mouse. Still hits that boundary.

 

The only thing in your reply that I haven't tried is setting my monitor to 100% scaling. In DCS, I have normally left the monitor resolution at default(1024x768) because I never fly in pancake and that res shouldn't impact VR anyway. But for science, I set it to native 4k monitor resolution, but it didn't make a difference. *edit* Tried 100% with no difference.

 

Just to be clear, is it not normal for the game mouse to be confined to that gui window area, at least at the hangar? Does your mouse go to the full edges of the monitor window(either windows or fullscreen)?

 

It seems odd to me that the cursor is specifically bound to this area, regardless if it is in the hangar gui, or while flying, unless it is meant to be. I can't think of any setting available that would impact this that hasn't been discussed already.

Edited June 19, 2018 by Baggy MacDouche

[fitness88]

Just to make sure both you and the OP aren't missing things people might assume are obvious - I'll be that guy :)

 

1. You can't control zoom in the typical way or mapping. There is, at least for the rift a button on one of the hands that allow you to "VR Zoom." While it is true you can't, to my knowledge adjust the amount it's important to be clear that the feature exists. You can also map this to anything via the GUI Options screen. You can also bind or use a mousewheel style function for external views in which you can control the zoom.

 

As an aside, you can get creative with use of the VR center function (default numpad 5) to set yourself closer or further away depending on the plane. Like for FC aircraft like the F-15 I prefer closer since I'm not clicking anything. If you physically lean forward or raise your butt/crouch you can fine tune where you are when you sit back naturally. I think some of the planes, like for sure the f18 have adjustable seats that largely do the same thing with more constraint.

 

2. A lot of people, myself included couldn't figure out how to 'right click' with the VR controllers. You just turn them upside-down and your little green line turns blueish and you can "right click" things with it. Alternatively, if you'd like to face-aim you can bind a HOTAS button to "right click" which is also in that GUI bindings pane.

 

 

 

Thanks for the follow-up!

#1-So there is no incremental zoom with VR, you just have the option of full zoom. The only option is what button/device you want to map to UI zoom command. I can't imagine using Rift hand controllers, I'd need 3 hands for that.

#2-I'm less comfortable face aiming so I'll stick to the mouse.

[fitness88]

Mouse confined to GUI window is a DCS option.

[BigDuke6ixx]

Amazed to read yet again that people are unable to deal with the very minor issues that VR throws up. Someone was saying they couldn’t hit the F keys, have they not heard of voice recognition?

[Iku_CC]

Amazed to read yet again that people are unable to deal with the very minor issues that VR throws up. Someone was saying they couldn’t hit the F keys, have they not heard of voice recognition?

 

Well..I think most of us know voice recognition but can't use it.

As you know(?)..some of us are not English talking chaps..:D.

 

I have bought Vaicompro..but..my language is Finnish and I have never been good in English so Vaicom won't understand what I'm saying.

 

I like the idea to talk to game but...can't..