Campaign documentation+instant mission ''end'' on overstepping mission parameters?

[sc_neo]

Hey,

i have two questions: i don't find any campaign documentation pdfs etc. in the ....\Mods\campaigns\L-39 Kursant folder like there is for EDs Red Flag campaigns for instance. Am i missing something or is all relevant info relayed via ingame mission briefings and voiceovers?

 

Second, is it intended that when you break through mission flight parameters (speed, altitude etc.) that the mission instantly quits? That happend to me on the first mission. I think its neither immersive nor does it give you the opportunity to train a bit with whatever the task is. I feel it would be better if the trainer would simply state that you failed and that you should go back to the airfiled and land an shut down.

[Rolds]

How far out of parameters were you? I actually didn't pass the qualification circuit and was told to around and try again the first time I did mission 1, it did not end the mission.

[sc_neo]

I was going close to 400kmh on the initial take off climb instead of advised 350. I try it again tonight.

[SL PAK]

I was going close to 400kmh on the initial take off climb instead of advised 350. I try it again tonight.

 

YOU ARE NOT MAINTAINING AIRSPEED

STUDY MORE AND WE WILL TRY TOMORROW

 

Free flight in the training mission "Circular Pattern".

[sc_neo]

Btw; i am still not really clear about flying a correct pattern. Are turns 1 and 2 and then 3 and 4 supposed to be flown in a continous 180° half circle or should we roll out after the first turn (after 90°), fly like 5-10 sec. straight, and then initiate turn 2 for another 90° to get roughly 5-6km distance to the airfield on the downwind leg? And the same then for turns 3 and 4?

 

Because, i feel if i do turns 1 and 2 in one continous 45° bank turn, i am rather close to the airfield. The manual and training mission advise way less than 45° bank, the manual says 20° for instance, which increases the radius and puts one 5ish km away from the airfield when downwind. Just curious what the correct way to do it in the campaign.

 

EDIT: disregard the above question, i have a better idea what the pattern should look like by going back to the manual. I still got a question about the exit degree values for the third and fourth turns. So i gather that one generally should exit the third turn at an angle of +20° to the runway heading (in this mission thus 60° for a runway heading of 39°). So far, so good. It then says one should start the fourth turn when the runway is at 10-15°. Is this meant to be a visual estimate looking out of the cockpit or is this meant as a readout from the ndb and rsbn signals on the hsi and adf indicators? I just want to learn it properly this time so it sticks :)

Edited June 26, 2018 by sc_neo

[muse458]

Hi all stuck on the first lesson.... no matter what I do...

 

I get repeat Lesson

Flaps 25

maximum Rpm

 

tried everything following the briefing to get this right... never went into the max rpm and hit the flaps on both take off and landing in the right spots.. need some documentation on where in the flight I may need to fix my flying or is this a bug?

 

any help appreciated Cheers

[SL PAK]

.. Is this meant to be a visual estimate looking out of the cockpit or is this meant as a readout from the ndb and rsbn signals on the hsi and adf indicators? I just want to learn it properly this time so it sticks :)

visual

[SL PAK]

..

any help appreciated Cheers

_KoxCH2L8SQ

[winz]

Hi all stuck on the first lesson.... no matter what I do...

 

I get repeat Lesson

Flaps 25

maximum Rpm

 

tried everything following the briefing to get this right... never went into the max rpm and hit the flaps on both take off and landing in the right spots.. need some documentation on where in the flight I may need to fix my flying or is this a bug?

 

any help appreciated Cheers

 

The instructor makes you do two patterns in the first mission. So what you're experiencing is normal, just set half flaps and set full thrust and fly the pattern again.

[Sydy]

The instructor makes you do two patterns in the first mission. So what you're experiencing is normal, just set half flaps and set full thrust and fly the pattern again.

 

Hi,

 

That Flap 25 max rpm is not nice... It happened to me and it is a misleading instruction. I also thought I failed three times and eventually gave up on the campaign.

 

I may give it a try again...

 

Tks,

 

Sydy

[Sydy]

Hi,

 

That Flap 25 max rpm is not nice... It happened to me and it is a misleading instruction. I also thought I failed three times and eventually gave up on the campaign.

 

I may give it a try again...

 

Minor update...

 

Re-did the first mission and got the same “repeat the exercice”, so this time just went along and flew another pattern (although not briefed), instead of just finishing the flight. After the second landing, got a “No comments” from the instructor and passed flawlessly. It’s a bit tricky (kind of), but understand we have to adapt to the instructor.

 

Now let’s go to the second one.

 

Tks,

 

Sydy

[Rolds]

Flaps 25 max RPM command is given on the landing roll right? Pretty sure what he means is turn it into a touch and go and do the circuit again, he's just being specific about technique and wants half flaps and max power.

[virgo47]

The first mission has quite strict parameters, but it's also the shortest one and the instructions are quite clear - after re-reading them couple of times. It definitely isn't a mission to be done on the first time. You should stay between 150 and 250 m, and the speed should not deviate much either. There are warnings first, but if you stay out of the tolerance, or go way over it, the mission ends right away.

Now, the first circle is not evaluated, it's just a warm-up for you. So in any case you have to not screw it up too much to get to the second - evaluated - attempt. And there you can get like 2-3 warnings. Exact triggers are possible to find in the mission file, but simply said - stay in the tolerance. Practice makes perfect. It is doable. It can be frustrating if you miss some trigger, but in that case you probably did something very wrong (like a turn way too soon, etc.). Otherwise this mission is pretty well sand-boxed and I like I can actually go AGAIN after a successful attempt.

If the attempt is not successful, you indeed get the order to repeat it - but the IP will also tell you: "You're not maintaining..." and after moment he lists all the things you're not maintaining. Like speed, altitude, etc.

It's also good idea to start with some free flying quick mission where you practice turns with the right roll without dropping or lifting your nose too much. No reason to practice it after the cold start really.

[Dragon1-1]

What frustrated me a lot is that the RPMs in the briefings are wrong. 80% N2 RPM will not give you 350kph. I found the sweet spot to be about 65% N2. You need to pull quite a lot of power from the takeoff settings. Once you realize that, maintaining the parameters becomes somewhat more doable.

IMO, the mission would be much enhanced if they gave you proper RPM values. I don't know if the ones we get are from real lessons and the FM is wrong, or if the ones we have were for a previous, incorrect FM, but either way, they're not of much use.

[virgo47]

3 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

What frustrated me a lot is that the RPMs in the briefings are wrong. 80% N2 RPM will not give you 350kph. I found the sweet spot to be about 65% N2. You need to pull quite a lot of power from the takeoff settings. Once you realize that, maintaining the parameters becomes somewhat more doable.

IMO, the mission would be much enhanced if they gave you proper RPM values. I don't know if the ones we get are from real lessons and the FM is wrong, or if the ones we have were for a previous, incorrect FM, but either way, they're not of much use.

I have to admit I'm hardly in the middle of the campaign (very slow, I know), so I'm not sure in which mission is N2 mentioned. In most cases, for L-39 power, N1 (HPC needle) is referenced instead, so isn't that just some kind of typo?

[Dragon1-1]

Well, that would explain. In fact, there's nothing about which needle it is referencing, it just says things like "80% RPM". In other aircraft, that would typically refer to N2, so I assumed this is the case here, too. I'm talking about the first mission, BTW.

[virgo47]

1 hour ago, Dragon1-1 said:

Well, that would explain. In fact, there's nothing about which needle it is referencing, it just says things like "80% RPM". In other aircraft, that would typically refer to N2, so I assumed this is the case here, too. I'm talking about the first mission, BTW.

Ah, then it definitely is N1. In L-39 the RPM % is N1 needle. Of course, it is still just rough number depending on the current situation as the same power does different things in level flight or climb, etc.

[Dragon1-1]

Turns out, it's still wrong if you reference the N1, but a bit less so. If you set the power the briefing wants you to, you'll get too slow. I think this needs to be adjusted, especially since it's in the briefing, so no issues with voicing.

[virgo47]

6 minutes ago, Dragon1-1 said:

Turns out, it's still wrong if you reference the N1, but a bit less so. If you set the power the briefing wants you to, you'll get too slow. I think this needs to be adjusted, especially since it's in the briefing, so no issues with voicing.

It's possible, but it's difficult to come up with an exact number unless you do absolutely everything the same way as the pilot who came up with the number. If I'm a bit slow, I need higher RPM to get to the desired speed - doubly so in turn. Then suddenly it's too much, etc. So the numbers are not universally true. I started to make my own extended notes for the campaign, but they are only relevant up to mission 4. I'm offering it as-is, no guarantee.

L-39 Kursant Campaign Notes.pdf

It still is a shame this campaign has NO docs at all... I wish I knew what the difference is between the manoeuvres and when to use which kind of bombing, etc. Maybe I'll learn later, but PDF would still help. Many/most campaigns have some kind of docs. This one - nada. I still like the campaign, it is perhaps old-school from today's perspective, but I like the effort they put into it.

[Dragon1-1]

Well, when to use which maneuver is kind of obvious - you use the regular "combat turn" when they're shooting at you from the ground, as to minimize the time you're flying straight. The "loft" one is a classic pop-up attack, used if you're able to terrain mask, and the half loop technique is for low threat situations - it overflies the target going fast, and then pops up into an attack. It's accurate and lets you inspect the target, but it also exposes you to enemy fire, particularly to MANPADS. It would've been nice if some more time was spent on tactics, but these attack types themselves are fairly basic building blocks. I admit, this campaign could use some more theory, but ED probably thought it'd come from elsewhere, this is just the practical part.

[virgo47]

22 minutes ago, Dragon1-1 said:

Well, when to use which maneuver is kind of obvious - you use the regular "combat turn" when they're shooting at you from the ground, as to minimize the time you're flying straight. The "loft" one is a classic pop-up attack, used if you're able to terrain mask, and the half loop technique is for low threat situations - it overflies the target going fast, and then pops up into an attack. It's accurate and lets you inspect the target, but it also exposes you to enemy fire, particularly to MANPADS. It would've been nice if some more time was spent on tactics, but these attack types themselves are fairly basic building blocks. I admit, this campaign could use some more theory, but ED probably thought it'd come from elsewhere, this is just the practical part.

See, it's wasn't obvious to me and, believe it or not, I couldn't google it - perhaps wrong words, but simple this vs that didn't help me. Thank you for the explanation.