How to attack AA defended targets (Blue Flag)?

[Hoggorm]

Hi,

 

I was wondering what was the best method to attack targets on the Blue Flag server using the Viggen?

 

All targets are defended by either AAA, SAM or both. The targets are the AA themselves placed around the target area.

 

Using low level High drag bombs, I can overfly a target fast, but seldom hit much since there is little time to adjust the flight path in the very last few seconds before approaching the target. In the best case I hit one target only. I’m also often hit by AAA.

 

I've also tried ARKAN rockets popping up and then attack from altitude, but in this situation, I’m always shot down by IR SAM at the target site.

 

I'd love to try the BK-90 but I assume it is still not available in multiplayer?

 

What is the best way to attack targets defended by AA?

[Cik]

i assume the viggen has flares?

 

 

it also has mavericks iirc.. why not use those?

 

 

failing that, rocket pop up with continuous dispense once past 1000' should do it. as long as you are dispensing, IR is basically useless. SA-6/10 should be no factor as long as you duck within maybe 15 seconds back to NOE.

[IDontLikeBigbrother]

If there is only AAA there, you can always use this tactics.

1 Use highdrag bombs.

2 fly suuuuuupeeeeeer fast and suupeer low(fast is more important than low)

3 when you approach to the target, pull up slightly to release alttitude(dont follow the manual 50m alttitude, 30 or 40 meters is high enough)

4about 2km to the target, crank your stick back and forward randomly.(this 2km distance is up to the AAA and your self. basically you crank your plane just half a second before the AAA starts firing. If you see the yellow tracer and then crank, it is a little late).

5 release the bombs.

6 get your ass out of here as fast as you can.

 

 

I use this tactics to successfully hit kirov and get out in one piece. (1 success out of 7 tries)

[Tj1376]

Mavericks and only Mavericks. The low defense farps and fuel depots only have two shilkas and two sams. You have four Mavericks. Don’t miss. :)

 

I actually setup a mission based upon BF round 10 (which concluded two weeks ago.) if I get some time tonight I’ll post it up here so you can play with it.

 

TJ

 

 

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[Hoggorm]

i assume the viggen has flares?

 

 

it also has mavericks iirc.. why not use those?

 

 

failing that, rocket pop up with continuous dispense once past 1000' should do it. as long as you are dispensing, IR is basically useless. SA-6/10 should be no factor as long as you duck within maybe 15 seconds back to NOE.

 

It has flares yes, but only if you remove another payload like bomb or rockets. There are four pylons where I can have bombs. If I want to bring flares I have to replace two of those with the flare dispensers.

 

I tried this yesterday and I was not very successful. The reason appears to be that when I pop up (and start using flares) the SAM has time to lock on to me. When pointing my nose to the target it fires and the flare is unfortunately not helping at all. I get the missile right up the nose.

 

If there is only AAA there, you can always use this tactics.

1 Use high drag bombs.

2 fly suuuuuupeeeeeer fast and suupeer low(fast is more important than low)

3 when you approach to the target, pull up slightly to release alttitude(dont follow the manual 50m alttitude, 30 or 40 meters is high enough)

4about 2km to the target, crank your stick back and forward randomly.(this 2km distance is up to the AAA and your self. basically you crank your plane just half a second before the AAA starts firing. If you see the yellow tracer and then crank, it is a little late).

5 release the bombs.

6 get your ass out of here as fast as you can.

 

 

I use this tactics to successfully hit kirov and get out in one piece. (1 success out of 7 tries)

 

Although I appreciate the suggestion I do not believe this is a very good solution... First: Flying that low I will not be able to see the targets. Remember that they are not exactly at the target waypoint. They may very well be both ahead, after, to the left and right by quite a distance. Also - the cranking of the stick would perhaps be ok if there was only one AAA. But there may be several firing at different times.

 

Mavericks and only Mavericks. The low defense farps and fuel depots only have two shilkas and two sams. You have four Mavericks. Don’t miss. :)

 

I actually setup a mission based upon BF round 10 (which concluded two weeks ago.) if I get some time tonight I’ll post it up here so you can play with it.

 

I see. Never tried that. I was hoping to use a little more Viggen special tactics :) But if that's what works, then I'll try that!

 

I'd be happy to test your mission if you'd let me!

[dimitrischal]

Try Mavericks or BK90s. Try to stand off as much as you can. Flares are effective , I don’t know why they don’t work for you. If they allow BK90s those are your best choice for wrecking a FARP. 2 AAA and 2 IR SAMS lies on the excessive side of air defenses for a single target so I’d stay away from athe classic viggen armaments.

[Hoggorm]

Do the BK90 work in MP at all?

[Skyracer]

Do the BK90 work in MP at all?

 

Yes and no. Its more of a big bomb than anything else

[SacredRaziel]

I got to agree on using standoff munitions. I dislike the mavs though since the viggen is the least capable plane for that.

I would suggest bk90 in combination with the automatic generated cartridge. You will have the exact location of the target+qfe and if you do a proper attack with the bk90 you will hit. Including the viggen sensation .

Just to put the 'light' air defence in perspective = afaik you only get AAA/ Sam's on high priority assets. E.g. airfields, huge depots, brigade/division headquarters, staging areas etc. Everything else usually has to rely on long range Sam's/cap and machinegunners. One or two manpads if lucky. So they are a bit over the top on bf/ddcs etc

 

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[Rudel_chw]

I actually setup a mission based upon BF round 10 (which concluded two weeks ago.) if I get some time tonight I’ll post it up here so you can play with it.

 

 

Please post it, I'd love to try that mission :)

 

Mavericks and only Mavericks. The low defense farps and fuel depots only have two shilkas and two sams. You have four Mavericks. Don’t miss. :)

 

 

I havent tried yet the mavericks against AA or SAMs, but I'm fairly proficient at firing four Mavs on a single pass, like this practice (against ships in port):

 

 

i93H3k3RPa8

 

 

 

Cheers!

[Tj1376]

I got to agree on using standoff munitions. I dislike the mavs though since the viggen is the least capable plane for that.

I would suggest bk90 in combination with the automatic generated cartridge. You will have the exact location of the target+qfe and if you do a proper attack with the bk90 you will hit. Including the viggen sensation .

Just to put the 'light' air defence in perspective = afaik you only get AAA/ Sam's on high priority assets. E.g. airfields, huge depots, brigade/division headquarters, staging areas etc. Everything else usually has to rely on long range Sam's/cap and machinegunners. One or two manpads if lucky. So they are a bit over the top on bf/ddcs etc

 

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Can you walk us through how you do this? I haven’t been super proficient in the Viggen in a LONG time and so some of the newer features I am not familiar with.

 

I should have time to post the mission tonight for those that have asked. It’s super basic, it was designed so I could test different airframes against targets and perfect ingress and egress. It has no cool scripts or features.

 

TJ

 

 

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[Tj1376]

 

I see. Never tried that. I was hoping to use a little more Viggen special tactics :) But if that's what works, then I'll try that!

 

I'd be happy to test your mission if you'd let me!

 

Please post it, I'd love to try that mission :)

 

Cheers!

 

See attached MIZ file - Maykop airframes mimic red, gudauta airframes mimic blue. You'll find the Viggen at Maykop cold with full fuel (I hate waiting for fuel), but its otherwise like what you found in Blue Flag for round 10. Psebay (light farp) and Gubskaya (fuel depot) targets are very similar in location and type to what is found in BF round 10.

 

Good luck!

 

TJ

BF Sochi Red.miz

[Rudel_chw]

See attached MIZ file ...

 

Thanks a lot, will fly it tomorrow and then tell you my impressions :)

[SacredRaziel]

Can you walk us through how you do this? I haven’t been super proficient in the Viggen in a LONG time and so some of the newer features I am not familiar with.

 

I should have time to post the mission tonight for those that have asked. It’s super basic, it was designed so I could test different airframes against targets and perfect ingress and egress. It has no cool scripts or features.

 

TJ

 

 

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Sure. While your ck37 is booting, open your kneeboard and turn to the ground crew page. At the bottom you see wich cartridge is selected. With lctrl+lalt+c you shuffle through the cartridges and will eventually stumble on the 6th called autogenerated + targettype. Now you load the cartridge as usual and prepare your strike. B1 and b2 are autogenerated waypoints m3 is the targetpoint. That's it basically

 

 

Edit:

The autogenerated cartridge always uses the closest target to your position. You might be able to use your elint pod to generate a flight plan for radar Sam's by now, I did not try that out yet.

 

Edit2:

In case you were asking about the bk90, I mostly stick to chucks guide. The only deviation is that I usually don't stick to the approach from b2, since that's usually not the best protected approach. Just check the map around the target to find a safe approach AND a safe way to leave the area.

Edited September 3, 2018 by SacredRaziel

[metzgerov]

I use RB-75's. Pop-up and shoot at max range (2 targets at most), turn and burn and get low then come around for a 2nd or 3rd pass.

 

I did bomb an airbase though in CCIP but that was nuts and maybe lots of luck (and stress) :)

[QuiGon]

I LOVE the BK90 in Blue Flag. Before the flight I go into the GCI slot to check the situation and if I'm lucky I will also see some enemy position (if friendlies are nearby). Then I jump into the Viggen, get armed and enter a flight plan into the nav system. To do that I check the map for a good approach to target (using valleys) and place a target waypoint on the target. That's about it, I'm good to go then.

[Hoggorm]

I LOVE the BK90 in Blue Flag.

 

I was not aware that the BK90 was working as it should on multiplayer servers... Is it dispersing correctly online?

[Tj1376]

I was not aware that the BK90 was working as it should on multiplayer servers... Is it dispersing correctly online?

 

 

Negative. It’s just a big bomb.

 

Very useful in testing against the fuel depots. :)

 

TJ

 

 

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[Hoggorm]

Bit how can you hit anything then? The exact location of the various targets are usually not known...

 

The idea with the BK90 is that it is a cluster bomb and will take out targets fairly close to the target coordinates.

[mattebubben]

Bit how can you hit anything then? The exact location of the various targets are usually not known...

 

The idea with the BK90 is that it is a cluster bomb and will take out targets fairly close to the target coordinates.

 

 

The the answer is that it is a VERY VERY big bomb.

So the area effected by the explosion is large to try and give a similar area of destruction.

(I think that in regards to making large craters only the mig-21s nuke has it beat)

 

 

 

Its far from perfect though and it has a large problem in that its guidance system works differently.

 

 

The way it is modeled it will impact the ground on the coordinates to set of the bomb,

But this has the result that it is less capable at avoiding the ground during its flight then the normal BK 90 and if it does hit the ground during its flight to the target it will explode.

 

 

 

So it is not uncommon to be killed by your own bomb when it hits the ground if you drop from low altitude.

Edited September 6, 2018 by mattebubben

[Tj1376]

How to attack AA defended targets (Blue Flag)?

 

Bit how can you hit anything then? The exact location of the various targets are usually not known...

 

The idea with the BK90 is that it is a cluster bomb and will take out targets fairly close to the target coordinates.

 

 

Join the server. Then leave the server. You’ll now have the mission file on your hard drive. Reverse engineer the mission file to give exact coordinates for every objective.

 

You’d almost always have this intel in real life, so we don’t consider it cheating.

 

TJ

 

Edit: scroll up a few posts and you’ll find a MIZ file I created. That’s exactly how I created it... reverse engineered the MIZ file you download when you join the BF server.

 

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[Pheonix0869]

TJ, now I'm always hitting you up for coords when I see u on. JK.

 

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[Hoggorm]

I tried to use the BK90 yesterday without luck. The bombs did not hit close enough I'd imagine so no damage was done.

 

Join the server. Then leave the server. You’ll now have the mission file on your hard drive. Reverse engineer the mission file to give exact coordinates for every objective.

 

 

This could absolute be a solution. Where is this mission file saved? Is it saved as a .miz file that can easily be opened in the mission editor?

 

I downloaded the mission file you posted a couple of days ago and I've been trying various weapons using your file several times. Thank you :)

[Rudel_chw]

... Where is this mission file saved? Is it saved as a .miz file that can easily be opened in the mission editor?

 

Its saved on Saved Games/dcs.xxx/tracks/multiplayer

 

The file has the date & time on its name and extension .trk ... rename it to .miz and then you can open it on the mission editor.

[Hoggorm]

Thank you!