Cockpit Instruments Blurry with NVG's On.

[SnowTiger]

I started flying the Diximude Campaign again the other day (for the first time since it was released).

Back when I flew this campaign originally, there was no issue reading any of the cockpit instruments/controls etc with the NVG's activated.

 

Now it is almost impossible to read anything inside the cockpit.

 

This will make an already difficult flight very dangerous considering you must fly at night within 10m of the ground while maintaining a flight path along the waypoints without varying more than 100 feet or meters to either side.

This will be very difficult without being able to read ANYTHING inside the cockpit.

 

Is this something that will SOON be addressed ?

Is this a known Bug ?

 

I might as well be flying with VR where everything is blurry !

[Eagle_Rising]

As has been addressed before this is realistic. NVGs have a set focus that is adjusted by the pilot and usually the pilot adjusts the focus well outside the aircraft so that they can see. NVGs are not like cameras and cannot focus automatically. Usually the pilot just looks underneath the goggles to see all the instruments. For VR I highly recommend Tacca’s NVG mod (formerly Frenchy’s NVG mod) this Mod makes the use of NVGs in VR a much more realistic as usable experience.

 

 

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[SnowTiger]

I guess since there is no way to focus, I'd rather see the NV in front of the right eye only (i.e. to the right of center view) leaving the left eye clear to read the instruments.

 

I find it basically impossible to maintain maximum 10m altitude at 180 km/hr over water with or without NV ... but definitely not With NV On.

 

I wonder if there is a way to reposition the NVG lens/view to have it more to the right ?

[borchi_2b]

the nvgs are focused to infinity in reality. I have seen picrures taken on a ch47f night ops and the dash was not focused at all. I really like the fact that they are not focusing the cockpit anymore. If really needed i switch the nvgs off. Other then that it is pure practise.

[Eagle_Rising]

And actually with most modern cockpit setups the lighting is filtered out by the NVGs anyway.

 

Again I highly recommend Tacca’s mod for the NVGs it really is good and allows you to move the NVGs and resize them how you like.

 

 

 

 

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[Rogue Trooper]

I got me a whole new level of respect for RL NVG goggle night flyers once the new DCS night goggs came out. I had read about the infinity focus thing in books but now we got it too.

I have not flown night flights much but I found turning on the instrument lights and looking at the instruments under the NVG viewing circle worked... It didn't work great... but it worked.

 

I am a track IR user by the way so it was easy to tilt my head up whilst looking under the NVGs.

[Robert31178]

And actually with most modern cockpit setups the lighting is filtered out by the NVGs anyway.

 

Again I highly recommend Tacca’s mod for the NVGs it really is good and allows you to move the NVGs and resize them how you like.

 

 

 

 

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Link?

[SnowTiger]

Yup. A LINK/URL would be helpful.

I just searched for it in the "User Files" using all the parameters I can think of.

No Joy.

But I'd love to try it because starting with Mis 5 in Dixmude, the campaign becomes impossible for me.

[Eagle_Rising]

I don’t think it’s on the user files it’s just on the ED forum https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=151646

 

 

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[Hook47]

If the devs have any interest in my 2 cents- as former CH 47 Flight Crew I can tell you the NVGs we had could be refocused for inside the aircraft or outside the aircraft through adjustment to the apature. This was done by pilots and flight engineers/gunners regularly, because sometimes you needed to see inside or outside the bird.

 

The ability to adjust focus would be awesome.

 

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[Eagle_Rising]

If the devs have any interest in my 2 cents- as former CH 47 Flight Crew I can tell you the NVGs we had could be refocused for inside the aircraft or outside the aircraft through adjustment to the apature. This was done by pilots and flight engineers/gunners regularly, because sometimes you needed to see inside or outside the bird.

 

The ability to adjust focus would be awesome.

 

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Coming from the 60 community I haven’t heard of anyone doing this. However, I guess maybe it makes sense, since you guy actually can move around in the back but I still can’t see the point of adjusting focus inside for front seaters.

 

I do agree it would be a cool feature to adjust the focus but I also would like them to fix the auto brightness control first.

 

 

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[SnowTiger]

I've seen a couple videos of DCS F18's flying with NVG's and their cockpit controls are pretty legible.

It's completely illegible in the Gazelle.

So while being able to see outside the cockpit to know if you are going to crash into something is great, but for the sake of navigating or operating videos etc, it is extremely difficult.

[Eagle_Rising]

I've seen a couple videos of DCS F18's flying with NVG's and their cockpit controls are pretty legible.

It's completely illegible in the Gazelle.

So while being able to see outside the cockpit to know if you are going to crash into something is great, but for the sake of navigating or operating videos etc, it is extremely difficult.

 

 

 

I know the videos you’re talking about and I’m pretty sure they just focused it for inside because they never had a scene where they show both the inside and outside without a scene cut.

 

I’m telling you from personal experience that the inside will be blurry with goggles on.

 

One option could be to add the AN/AVS-7 which gives you a HUD overlay on your goggles. We probably won’t get that lucky though.

 

Just get used to looking underneath the goggles it will eventually get easier.

 

 

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[SnowTiger]

I guess I'm going to have to track down the videos then (one of which was posted in FB over the last few days).

The view showed both inside and outside the cockpit at the same time. It was a diagonal view towards 2 o'clock so you could see the top right and center MFD's as well as the terrain outside.

Both were very legible.

 

That's why I bring this up.

That said, the NVG's in the F18 and/or the cockpit clarity are definitely much better.

Furthermore, we used to be able to see the cockpit clearly, albeit dimly (because the contrast had to be turned down to view inside) a year or two ago.

 

Finally, this shouldn't be an issue of FOCUS. NVG's we use in DCS do NOT have a Zoom function. They are a 1:1 ratio. So it's not a matter of focusing inside versus outside. It's more like looking through glasses that provide the ability to see using star or moon light.

 

With the lights off or dimmed in the cockpit, one should easily be able to read the instruments.

How in hell would anyone navigate if they cannot see the inside of the cockpit with NVG's on in RL ?

You can't tell me (or rather I'd never believe it) that a chopper pilot (or any pilot) would need to remove the NVG's just to view their instruments.

 

The arguments in this thread are make no sense to me at all.

We were able to see before and now we can't. And I don't believe this is accurate.

I believe what is represented in the F18 now and what was represented in the Gazelle previously is more realistic and certain WAY MORE USEFUL.

Otherwise, the Current NVG's for the F18 are inaccurate !

Which is it ?

[Gizzy]

I believe it is common with some helo pilots and NVGs to look under them to see the guages - believe what you wish.....

 

Tacos NVG MOD make this concept more useable by reducing the size of the standard DCS modelled NVG area...

 

In the 229th we use 2 variants of the MOD one for VR and the other more for 2D and TrackIR. They both work perfectly and I highly recommend them especially for all aspects of helo work...

 

Sometime ago someone made a MOD that NVGs no matter wherever you looked was clear - unrealistic but clear.

 

Over the years there have been many types of NVGs all with different capabilities... I used quite a few of the older ones and I'm sure the result was nothing like the modern version.

 

What Aircraft models what NVG capability I've no idea but I suspect its around 1980 vintage for many...

[SnowTiger]

I don't have a problem believing RL pilots will look under NVG's. That's a little more difficult in Sim.

 

While the earlier version of NVG's for the Gazelle may well have not been realistic, one could argue that it was a reasonable replacement ... like Auto Pilot in the UH-1h.

 

I have downloaded the Mod but haven't installed it yet because I was trying to eliminate an unrelated issue ... which I seem to finally have resolved.

So I'll be trying it out very soon. Thanks for that.

[Gizzy]

First pic is what you will see with Taccos MOD in 2D

 

Second Pic is the MOD adjusted for VR using 2 projections but in 2D it comes out like this... flyable but not so realsitic... the original works fine just move you head up slightly and look down and all is good...

 

I presume you are aware of this https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3624317&postcount=13

 

 

 

..

 

 

 

[Gunnars Driver]

If the devs have any interest in my 2 cents- as former CH 47 Flight Crew I can tell you the NVGs we had could be refocused for inside the aircraft or outside

 

I believe it is common with some helo pilots and NVGs to look under them to see the guages

 

The only practical solution in cockpit is to look under the goggles when looking inside.

The refocus thing is technical possible but it isnt really possible to do this during flight - you set the focus before flight at around ’infinite’. This is the only way to do it and to do it safe.

I got around 20yrs of NVG Flight and one if my main tasks is instructing other pilots/crews on NVG Flight. Never adjusted focus for inside, and never heard of before. The time to re-set focus outside would be to long and you cant really guarante that the setting is perfect after each time. Besides this, the human eye is a lot better than NVG when getting sufficient light levels, wich you have no problem achieving in a NVG Compatible cockpit. All lighting is selected not to be in the wavelength that NVG are sensitive for(actually the goggles have filters, ”minus blue filters” to allow for either green only lights, warning panels with green/yellow/red warnings or for full 4 colour displays.

 

For the cabin crew I /We teach the possibility to adjust the focus closer, to have the close vicinity sharp when doing landings in small clearings. On trick I teach is for the cabin crew to test one eye focus closer to see threes and underneath the helo and the other eye/tube a bit further or infinity. Not every one can cope with this so in the end its a personal choise how to set them or readjust during flight.

Edited February 3, 2019 by Gunnars Driver
spelling

[Hook47]

The only practical solution in cockpit is to look under the goggles when looking inside.

The refocus thing is technical possible but it isnt really possible to do this during flight - you set the focus before flight at around ’infinite’. This is the only way to do it and to do it safe.

I got around 20yrs of NVG Flight and one if my main tasks is instructing other pilots/crews on NVG Flight. Never adjusted focus for inside, and never heard of before. The time to re-set focus outside would be to long and you cant really guarante that the setting is perfect after each time. Besides this, the human eye is a lot better than NVG when getting sufficient light levels, wich you have no problem achieving in a NVG Compatible cockpit. All lighting is selected not to be in the wavelength that NVG are sensitive for(actually the goggles have filters, ”minus blue filters” to allow for either green only lights, warning panels with green/yellow/red warnings or for full 4 colour displays.

 

For the cabin crew I /We teach the possibility to adjust the focus closer, to have the close vicinity sharp when doing landings in small clearings. On trick I teach is for the cabin crew to test one eye focus closer to see threes and underneath the helo and the other eye/tube a bit further or infinity. Not every one can cope with this so in the end its a personal choise how to set them or readjust during flight.

Yes, our pilots abode by the same rules if I remember correctly. They wouldn't adjust in flight, although I did hear of tubes being set for different distances as your discussed. The crew on our birds would refocus pretty often do complete tasks inside the chopper, but we didn't have flight controlls to hang in to all the time.

 

All this being said- I still think the best and most realistic option would be to allows players to adjust their focus point as per the capabilities of the real NVGs.

 

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[Schmidtfire]

This is my idea/solution for a "Look under" implementation.

 

Head tilts down, NVG's goes up in your field of view. Make NVG's "mask" dynamic. When you look down Y axis, NVG "mask area" moves in opposite direction, up in Y axis on screen and clear any instruments.

Sort of simulating a peek under the goggles i cockpit.

 

Hate to sound like a broken record, but this is the best way to simulate something that is kind of complicated to get right in a sim. How much the NVG's will move probably needs some testing and maybe a slider for personal preference.

Edited February 11, 2019 by Schmidtfire

[Gunnars Driver]

There’s another reason why you would’nt try to look inside with the NVGs in cockpit.

The cockpit and instrument lighting in a NVG-compatible A/C is adapted to a specific range of wavelength and the NVG has filters mounted that sort out these specific wavelengts.

The cockpit and instrument/screen lighting will therefore not be amplified by the NVGs and will come out very dark and unreadable, even if the focus would be adjusted properly for looking inside. There are different lightings in NVG compatible aircrafts, from green only light for all lighting, to NVG compatible four color MFD screens. For each type the correct filters are used.

All systems have one thing common: the NVG can not use this lighting to see things.

 

This is a small demo about this, from my night flight this evening:

 

 

The instrument lighting is set to NVG, the MFD screens and instruments are very easy to see with the naked eye under the NVG, but the NVG cannot even see that the screens are on. Its also impossible to see the analog stand by instruments through the NVG, despite the fact that we where over a city and all city lighting( not NVG compatible) illuminates inside the cockpit and helps NVG to see things.

Edited February 12, 2019 by Gunnars Driver