Unrealistic landing and emergency air system doesnt work.

[motoadve]

I try short landings on taxiways and stop in 300ft, its like touch down and arrested by a hook in a carrier.

Impossible and unrealistic.

 

Tried closing the main tank, and running out of air by lowering and retracting flaps and gear, at the end ran out of air, the air pressure gauge still indicates I have air, so does not work.

Put lever in neutral, open the emergency tank, lower the gear, nothing, does not work.

 

 

I fly a real CJ6 Nanchang, same systems, and same landing roll as per the manual as the Yak 52. It cannot stop in 300ft ever.

 

This needs to be fixed, no ground effect whatsoever either.

Pretty dissapointing.

[freemind_fly]

Interesting. Was about to buy the module during summer sales but that sounds disappointing.

[freemind_fly]

Or are you using some arcade mode settings?

[Weta43]

You should check to see if you have some sort of assist or simple mode turned on motoadve, because there are 13 pages of discussion regarding the Yak-52 flight characteristics here :

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=217349

started by AcroGimp:

First off my qualifications:

 

FAA licensed commercial pilot, ~700 hrs total time, 350 in Yak-52 which I have owned for 3 and half years. I am a member of the Red Star Pilot's Association, I hold a Formation Wingman Card and am working on upgrading to Lead. I fly weekly, formation, aerobatics, I lead a casual 3-ship formation aerobatic team, and I even take her out for the occasional $200 hamburger or very short trip.

then added to by several other Yak & CJ6 pilots, and while there is some discussion around the rate of air use and recharging, an unrealistic landing rollout is not one of the issues ever mentioned (& as they thread includes an analysis of the take off and landing characteristics, you'd have thought it would if there were as big an issue as you're claiming.

[bbrz]

I don't think that any RW Yak52/CJ6 pilot would routinely perform a max performance landing and apply full braking, since the flight manual landing roll is already really short 300m.

So I'm not sure if you can easily make a RW comparison.

 

Touching down at 140km/h and applying full braking immediately afterwards (again I doubt that any sane Yak/CJ owner would do that) I need 200m.

 

That's still considerable less than the flight manual 300m, but more than double the distance (90m) motoadve needs.

 

One (or even the) reason for the too short landing run might be the still way too high flap drag.

Edited July 2, 2019 by bbrz

[motoadve]

Brakes in CJs and Yak 52s are crap, you push too much and they lock up, no power.

300 mts is doable, I have done it consistenly, but 100 meters, no way.

 

 

Edited July 4, 2019 by motoadve

[bbrz]

Why are the brakes crap? If they lock up, which is expected without antiskid, aren't they too powerful?

[motoadve]

Skid, loose traction , longer breaking, really crap, like drum brakes in car.

[bbrz]

So you mean they lock up too quick/easy I assume.

[Mars Exulte]

Ummm... if you're locking the brakes that means you're braking too hard. That isn't a 'brake quality' thing. If the pressure being exerted is too high, it overcomes the road friction and the wheel stops spinning. That applies to ANY aircraft, car, whatever.

 

That is NOT an example of 'bad brakes' it is an example of

1. Poor braking habits. I.e. a pilot/driver issue, not a plane/car issue. Exacerbated by it being a light aircraft.

 

Other contributing factors in-rl :

 

2. Tires are poorly suited or bald. For example racing tires are not 'better quality' than econo-tires... they are SOFTER than econo-tires, which means they grip the road better than the harder, longer lasting typical tires. Racing tires are often WIDER than regular tires, too, which increases surface area contact and traction (particularly when hot).

 

3. The road/landing surface is slick or unsuitable.

 

The Yak may be stopping too quickly, but I'm afraid your understanding of brakes, tires, etc is entirely wrong. I find people have issues by trying to fly/drive like an on/off switch with no finesse. Throttle wide open or closed, brakes off or fully applied, etc @@

Edited July 4, 2019 by zhukov032186

[Svsmokey]

Ummm... if you're locking the brakes that means you're braking too hard. That isn't a 'brake quality' thing. If the pressure being exerted is too high, it overcomes the road friction and the wheel stops spinning. That applies to ANY aircraft, car, whatever.

 

That is NOT an example of 'bad brakes' it is an example of

1. Poor braking habits. I.e. a pilot/driver issue, not a plane/car issue. Exacerbated by it being a light aircraft.

 

Other contributing factors in-rl :

 

2. Tires are poorly suited or bald. For example racing tires are not 'better quality' than econo-tires... they are SOFTER than econo-tires, which means they grip the road better than the harder, longer lasting typical tires. Racing tires are often WIDER than regular tires, too, which increases surface area contact and traction (particularly when hot).

 

3. The road/landing surface is slick or unsuitable.

 

The Yak may be stopping too quickly, but I'm afraid your understanding of brakes, tires, etc is entirely wrong. I find people have issues by trying to fly/drive like an on/off switch with no finesse. Throttle wide open or closed, brakes off or fully applied, etc @@

 

It is possible for poor brake design to give the effects mentioned . Ask any Yamaha rider with a rear drum . I rode the RD350 . That sucker acted like an on-off switch . We filed a taper into the leading edge of the shoe friction material to mitigate .

Edited July 4, 2019 by Svsmokey

[Mars Exulte]

Ok... so, here's my reasoning:

 

On thinking, I can see how, for example, a brake design that has too much contact area could lock up with relatively light control application, but seems it would be the same approximate braking force actually being applied, regardless of whether the controls themselves were touchy or not. For example, reducing the area, or increasing the bite, or whatever, where perhaps you have to apply more input to achieve a given effect, kind of like reducing the sensitivity of a setting.

 

However, whether the vehicle actually skids or not is dependent on tire vs surface interactions, not just the control application. That's my point.

 

I fly the Yak-52 quite a lot ingame, first with a X-56 with the digital brake lever (on/off, no axis), even though the control is instantaneous, ingame there is a lag as the pilot squeezes the lever meaning you can still feather it. Now I have a MCG Pro with a brake axis, and can apply graduated braking with more precision. If it was ''too sensitive'' as with other controls, that would be a curvature you could introduce to fine tune it to taste.

 

In any case, skidding around is caused by being too heavy handed, regardless of the particular method being utilised.

[bbrz]

I fly the Yak-52 quite a lot ingame,

But you do notice that we are talking about the real airplane, not the game plane.

I wouldn't even remotely think about comparing the game brakes with the real Yak/CJ brakes.

Edited July 5, 2019 by bbrz

[Mars Exulte]

Isn't that the point? Real airplane is like this, DCS airplane is like that? Otherwise what difference does it make? My only point was that locking the brakes is from overapplication, regardless of brake design

[bbrz]

The point is that I tend to believe a real Yak/CJ owner and pilot much more if he states that the brakes are crap, instead of an armchair pilot who says the RW pilot doesn't know how to operate the brakes correctly on his own plane!

Svsmokey already wrote that brake design plays a significant role.

Edited July 5, 2019 by bbrz

[Woodbuster]

Could we come back to the original post ? Everybody there knows that as flightsimmers and whatever our good or bad flying habits/uses we do expect the "pixalized" yak52 do behave as close as possible from its real life counterpart :music_whistling:.

BTW and IMHO the more you fly an aircraft out of its limits the more you learn from it.

 

 

Now, the OP was about the excessive braking strengh in DCS Yak-52 compared to a real CJ6 Nanchang.

-First thing to be sure of is: Does a real CJ6 brake exactly the same way as a real Yak52?

-Although I do not question motoadve's expertise, it would also be useful to get some info from other real pilots on that point.

[bbrz]

Could we come back to the original post ? BTW and IMHO the more you fly an aircraft out of its limits the more you learn from it.

 

Besides the fact that I strongly disagree with this statement, what does this have to do with the original post?

[Magnatilla]

BTW and IMHO the more you fly an aircraft out of its limits the more you learn from it.

 

You will only learn how to "Buy the farm" :music_whistling:

[motoadve]

If someone wants to believe you can land and stop a real Yak 52 in 100 meters, go believe it.

Case of Arm chair pilot thinking PC game is correct but , real life experience is wrong.

 

I fly my CJ6 about 3 times a week, it has same kind of brakes and plane as a Yak 52.

 

The flight model I have no complains, just the landings are super unrealistic if you can stop this plane in a 100 meters in the game, it is just wrong!

Go search all over the internet for Yak52 short field landing and find one can stops in 100meters, maybe with a 50knt headwind it can.

[Woodbuster]

Ahahah !:lol: Err guys I was talking about simulation, you understood that uh ?

 

 

Anyway this was just a digression amongst many others here and there (that's why I used italics for this sentence)...and of course I agree you can disagree...that's the beauty of forums !

 

I don't want to feed any polemic neither look for quarrels. I just humbely seek to learn from those who know. Once again few very simple question : Are we sure the real YAK52 brakes the same way as CJ6 ? Once this question sorted we could partially or totally reply to the next one : Does the DCS YAK52 brakes the same way as its real life counterpart. Motoadv is certainly an experienced person that's not the point but I think we need a more infos. Specially from pilots who praticed short landings on Yak52. And then we will adress a report to devellopers with strong arguments. That's it.

[Woodbuster]

Ok I'll do that.

[bbrz]

Once again few very simple question : Are we sure the real YAK52 brakes the same way as CJ6 ? Once this question sorted we could partially or totally reply to the next one : Does the DCS YAK52 brakes the same way as its real life counterpart. Motoadv is certainly an experienced person that's not the point but I think we need a more infos.

 

Wow, you are even questioning a RW pilot who flies both planes IRL, that's something new! Did you actually read what motoadve wrote???

 

I suggest you check the countless manuals available on the net and then show me a single airplane that approaches at 160km/h and which can stop within 100m.

I can guarantee you that you will not find a single one.

Edited July 5, 2019 by bbrz

[bbrz]

The flight model I have no complains

That's surprising since the manual says to establish a climb at 160km/h during a go around before retracting gear and flaps.

With the present FM I can just barely fly level at 160km/h with full flaps, gear down and full power.

So you can confirm that this behavior is correct?

Edited July 5, 2019 by bbrz

[Woodbuster]

"Wow, you are even questioning a RW pilot who flies both planes IRL, that's something new! Did you actually read what motoadve wrote???"

 

 

Please wait 2 minutes before racing masked vigilante. English is not my native language and I need some time to choose my words. Thank you.

[bbrz]

Please wait 2 minutes before racing masked vigilante.

? I have no idea what you mean with this sentence, most likely because English isn't my native language either.