FM needs to be improved

[YoYo]

I'm not saying this stuff out out spite, I'm trying to help. Don't you want the most correct flight model?

 

Dont worry, it was very good post. Here MiG-19P is very easy to fly (simply "too" for me) but it never was easy in RL. I read many about FM of polish pilot and here was a reason also why pilots doesn't very like "19" and was waiting for "21" (or prefered "17").

It was the reason also why (for Poland) never ordered mass quantinty of MiG-19 (we used P and PM, only near 40 and decision was don't produce it in Poland. The reason was complicated engine systems and behavior and properties in the air).

But Im sure Razbam will solve it. M2000C in the first day was a rocket, now FM is very resonable and its my most favorite module.

 

CRG btw for this module!

Edited March 2, 2019 by YoYo

[J3ST3R]

Flight model

 

Im no pilot and im not knocking Razbam at all but im pretty sure an aircraft, no matter what it is behaves like this when you rock the controls lol

 

 

 

 

Track attached

Mig19P 1.trk

[Sarraceno]

Lets face it, EA or finished, its foolish to not expect bugs in the first days... Anyway, as glad as i can be for a new soviet jet its true that it feels wrong in the handling, too smooth for a plane ot that era i think.... I guess they'll tweak as soon as they can. Judging for what i had read Razbam was quite rushed for release, judging for some answers they gave in other bug reports so lets be a bit patient, the module is meant to be full feature, not bug-free :D

[J3ST3R]

Lets face it, EA or finished, its foolish to not expect bugs in the first days... Anyway, as glad as i can be for a new soviet jet its true that it feels wrong in the handling, too smooth for a plane ot that era i think.... I guess they'll tweak as soon as they can. Judging for what i had read Razbam was quite rushed for release, judging for some answers they gave in other bug reports so lets be a bit patient, the module is meant to be full feature, not bug-free :D

 

 

 

Completely agree with you. Ive thought the same, seems like they've had to get it out the door as soon as possible. I know they'll sort it. The harrier and m2000 have excellent flight models and have no reason to think this will be any different.

[HWasp]

I just read this first hand account from retired MiG-19 pilot Wing Commander Irfan Masum and I'm definitely not seeing quite a few of the attributes described by him in the flight model.

 

https://hushkit.net/2017/10/30/flying-and-fighting-in-the-mig-19-in-conversation-with-wg-cdr-irfan-masum-part-1/

 

 

Thanks for posting that.

 

 

 

"What were it worst qualities?

“There were quite a few bad qualities but the worst, in my opinion, was the thick wing which made transonic speeds (just short of Mach 1) very rough to ride through and almost uncontrollable, although it employed ‘short arm’ and ‘long arm’ technology to cater for it.”

 

 

This is also an important part. I did not notice any effects like for example reduced aileron effectiveness, that could be expected and is featured in other modules.

[some1]

That's interesting... tried to accelerate at around 36500' and it literally took me ages to get to M 1.3, haven't tried further up though.

 

I repeated the test today and got different results, it doesn't take ages to get to 1.3 at 40k feet (just 2 minutes), but it's not F-15 level either. I've switched between various aircraft yesterday, so maybe that caused EFM to not load properly? Weird.

 

The acceleration around 0.9-1.0 Ma is quite quick, better than Su-27 or Hornet but not the level of "hotrods" like F-15 or MiG-29. Above 1.1 the acceleration goes down and it's hard to push much more than 1.3.

[HWasp]

Now here is the Mig-19S flight manual straight from the CIA :)

 

 

https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP80T00246A061400380001-8.pdf

 

 

Read page 77-78:

 

 

-177.:

 

At 10000 m and M 1.25 you can pull the stick fully back, due to the decreased effectiveness of the elevator. As you slow down through M 1.15 while keeping full aft stick, control effectiveness will come back.

 

This is one of the effects that I think the M3 Mig-21 simulates this well, check it out how that plane handles in pitch at different supersonic speeds.

 

 

page 95. and 96.

 

 

-238.:

 

"In case the pilot applies and abrupt pull on the stick, the aircraft drops it's nose to the right side. If the pilot keeps the stick full aft, the aircraft enters a left or right spin, even with aileron and rudder neutral."

 

-239.:

Plane may fall into inverted spin as well

 

-241.:

 

Recovery procedure

[Koriel]

Just to add my brief experience with the -19.

 

Once full aileron is applied it looks like there's no inertia, near max roll rate is experienced nearly instantaneous. Stopping or reversing a roll is just as quick. It doesn't feel right. Nor does it make sense.

[HWasp]

Just to add my brief experience with the -19.

 

Once full aileron is applied it looks like there's no inertia, near max roll rate is experienced nearly instantaneous. Stopping or reversing a roll is just as quick. It doesn't feel right. Nor does it make sense.

 

 

That was my initial thought as well, but then I have checked it with time slowed down to 1/8 and there was inertia modeled. Also, if you try it with drop tanks on, then it has nice inertia.

[nighthawk2174]

bump

[Zeus67]

Thread is being closed and moved to Completed Bugs.

 

Any discussion refer to this thread:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=233759